For reasons unfathomable, after equipping a new weapon, my bot seems significantly weaker.
No change in stats.
No level ups so far.
No armors have been changed.
The same shield is equipped.
The new weapon has a higher minimum damage than the old one.
The new weapon has a higher maximum damage than the old one.
I am training on the same trainbot.
Yet in spite of all this:
XP/hour has dropped.
Train win rate has dropped.
Very statistically improbable losses (0 XP) have suddenly become common.
Has anyone else experienced something like this? I am wondering if it may be freaking-related, but as far as I know, lacking the stats for anything has no penalties other than increased chance for the item to take damage. Are there any other penalties for freaking? I have no idea what is going on.
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Think you were a bit lucky before and are a bit unlucky now.
Randomness is annoying. Yesterday I fought bot with exactly the same build (same weapons/armours/stats). I made both bots so I am sure of it. Lost 40 out of 50 fights.
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I see, that could be it. This has been a pretty unlucky day so far.
Another question, Saiyan, are there any other penalties to freaked equipment other than taking increased damage?
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Apart from the increased damage frequency, there's no other penalty.
Although, shopping does becomes a bit more complex, time consuming and you have to shop more often. That can also be seen as a penalty.
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Ah I see. So barring a bug, this must be bad luck. Guess I better try to curry favour with my Gods then. Thanks, you've been helpful. :)
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You're not training with a Face of Horror are you? ;)
I guess you could try measuring your avg damage with you current weapon vs your old one. You never know, there might be a bug with the new weapon damage.
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You're not training with a Face of Horror are you? ;)
Lol, I must have checked like a dozen times. Checked for stray Steel Grips and Troll Shoes too.
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lol neps & you were so looking forward to your Chieftains ^^
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I know! There is a small chance that I am imagining this whole thing, simply because they didn't turn out to be as awesome as I imagined they'd be before I got them. :)
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After a quite a few hundred fights, it would seem that I'm still very "unlucky."
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I discovered that though it may be odd, for some reason training seems to be better with weapons that have the smaller min - max dmg ratio. Which is not the case for most strength weapons.
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I seem to be doing okay now. I guess I just experienced a bad half-thousand-train fluke.
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It's your bot. It sucks. I think you should reset and start over. :P
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Well, I freaked ruby katana, and my train win rate dropped by more than half. Unfreaked emerald katana wins more than freaked ruby katana.
I know it doesn't make any sense at all.
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Ruby katana made me weaker, used to have emerald katana. Same stats, same armors, shield. Did a few thousand trains to be sure.
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Ugh, wait, I just said that.
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That doesn't seem mathematically possible...
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IKR. Hence the very vague "bug" report.
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How much more freaked is your new weapon? With long fights it may actually end up doing less damage than an unfreaked weaker weapon due to the condition drop.
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Freaked with BH, HPoL Helm, SC and GR.
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This seemed to happen with me when I switched from Satanic Dazzler to Excalibur. Fighting this one guy I lost more after the switch than before.
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By how much more freaked I meant, what is the missing stats with the new weapon versus the old weapon. From there you can work out the increase in chance of the new weapon taking damage.
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I could see the possibility of that, say if you avg 10 durability losses your weapon could potentially downgrade itself.
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This is not going to make any sense, but:
I get hit harder on average when wearing a freaked weapon.
I block less.
This doesn't make any sense at all. Five thousand trains worth of data and it's all pointing to that. No drop in average damage when I wear the freaked weapon. It's just as if my bot forgets how to defend itself.
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I just did 300k simulations for two builds.
Level : 300
Str : 501
Dex : 518
Con : 142
Int : 75
Full Kevlar and Venerated Disk
300k with Ruby Katanas and 300k with Emerald Katanas. Each holding the same stats and same armors, just switching of weapons. The trainer was Cyborg LX. Each simulation, the attacker won 100% of the fights.
Ruby Katana Exp per hour : 2.399 billion
Emerald Katana Exp per hour : 2.239 billion
I think you are just hitting a crappy patch.
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Freaked with your armors you posted a little earlier.
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I'm pretty sure the win % can't be exactly 100% with only 142 con; even with ruby/emerald katanas he would lose some. In any case, crappy patches don't last for 5k+ trains.
It would be nice if Ender had a look, but since the problem is so vague, I'm not sure it's going to happen.
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I don't think there is anything to look at?
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I've been having the same problem for almost a hundred levels. Everytime I freak a new weapon, my EXP rate drops, my train win rate drops, and average damage on me rises, as well as chance to get hit.
Well, this isn't going to be my problem, in a twenty or so levels I'll have the stats for my final weapon anyway. For now I'll stick to an unfreaked weapon. I just know something's up.
You can't say I'm imagining this either, I think I spend more time on this game than anyone. Trust me, something's wrong. Freaking carries some disadvantages other than increased weapon durability loss. I don't know how it works, but that's how it is.
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Is your shield freaked?
Their durability is quite low, so the longer training fights could impact on you block mod maybe thus dropping your xp?
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Nah, I have more than 100 DEX over what I need.
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Shields last more than 10k trains I think.
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There was a thread on the topic of equipment damage nearly a year ago in which Ender replied with this:
I vaguely remember ignoring the "condition" parts of formulas when copying the bots2 documentation over to BU. If memory serves, I think hit chance got multiplied by condition.
So if you don't have the stats for your weapon, it will take damage every hit, bringing down the condition, bringing down your hit chance...I think.
This could explain the statistics you're producing, the only other explanation is the logical one; randomness. You're quite welcome to think a secret script is out to get you every time you freak a weapon, it's up to you. Without knowing your exact build and the stats you're producing I don't want to speculate but it is possible to calculate the chances of data being different relative to an expected outcome.
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That would explain my damage going down. It doesn't.
It's the trainbot's hits on me that go up.
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I freak a lot of bots with the same set, so lacking the same amount of stats, more or less, and those bots don't experience anything like this. So apparently, it only happens at really high levels. I can't expect anyone to relate to me I guess. Maybe this will be addressed in the future. Maybe not. I guess I'll just prioritize getting the stats for my weapon for now.
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Also, it took me about 100 levels, and more than 100k trains, to ditch the "blame it on randomness" explanation. People keep trying to suggest that this is due to my weapon taking increased damage. I'm not talking about my damage. MY weapon should not affect MY absorb, which apparently is what drops.
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Have you checked how much damage your armour is taking? Maybe there's a bug that somehow correlates weapon damage with armour damage.
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Nothing out of the ordinary.
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I assume Ender included weapon condition in his definition of 'condition' which would explain what I said i.e. you getting hit harder.
I wouldn't mind seeing the data that is the cause of these claims, you talk about it as if you started losing 50% more. I get the feeling it's quite minor and without any of us knowing exactly you shouldn't expect anybody to attribute it to anything other than randomness.
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Yeah, I know. Like I said, I don't really expect anyone to understand. It's all good.
I've already cleared my Bots4 statistics data, but I'll do a few trains so I can post something here.
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With Ruby Katana
Total trains: 25
Train win rate: 30.000%
Train avg length: 19.600 seconds
Train win max xp: 93,073,617
Train avg damage: 1,198.019
With Emerald Katana
Total trains: 25
Train win rate: 60.000%
Train avg length: 24.000 seconds
Train win max xp: 97,867,689
Train avg damage: 1,162.014
Damage is higher with Ruby Katana, as it should be. Where are these losses coming from? I can't pinpoint exactly, but they're coming from somewhere they shouldn't be, as I have the same armors, blockchance, attack rating, STR, DEX, CON, INT, level, browser, seating position, bot color, bot pic, screen resolution, whatever. Everything is exactly the same.
I changed one thing: my weapon. This should not affect anything other than my damage in the slightest.
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i think the bug is quite obvious. ender is biased towards green, that's why you win more often with a green katana over a red katana.
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Hehehe. That would have been a lot funnier if ruby katana was sapphire katana instead.
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This can also be explained a bit by greater variation in damage being bad (increase your losses) if you are the more powerful bot. Compound that with the slightly extra condition loss.
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As in some fights are overkill and hence you lose other fights that you win with the weapon with a lower damage range.
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But ruby katana has both a higher minimum and maximum damage than emerald katana.
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If you'd like to do me a favor and dig into this a bit more, it would probably be helpful to look at the damage you're receiving over time. This is a function of the train bot's weapon, strength, and your defense. Over time it should near this value, but it sounds like it's different for one of the weapons.
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Seems awfully difficult to track that data without a specialized script
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Yeah, It's so vague that I've stopped trying to figure out what's going on. I'll just add a few more STR and DEX.
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make a userscript that logs the final battle stats
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Yeah I thought such a thing already existed.
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Aquas battle script?
You can hold info like "Damage done by Trainer" / "done to trainer".
Or fights.
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go with the trainer. I think there might be one, not sure.
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It shows total damage, and there's a bug with the max trainbot damage, it shows 0 for some reason.
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He is the king of breaking things.
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What exactly is it that you figured. Ender should make post on the forums restricted to less than so many characters. One word responses are lame.
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