suggestions

Seriusoly. 20 is too little ... Cant stand it nomore godammit.

I'm kinda sorta getting used to it, 20.

Even at this low number, there isn't that much competition going on between clans. But once the game grows more popular, it'd be nice to have slightly bigger clans.

20 is just fine u fnixy man :)

imagine eternal having 30 bots in, we wouldnt notice su much losing skipper, but today, it was a really big hit.

Yeah, he will be missed, warm personality and most of all his twenty stars who he never sold to me for the $4 :(

Well you see some people cant play 24/7 and some people cant score like rivan or champion. I dont really care about how much energy people get. They should get the postive number ofc. What I care is having friends to stick together, no mater if they get 500k energy or 5k. Why the fuck this stupid limit exist? clan can have 100 members, but the clan 5 memebers would win if they had rivan smeagol freakster neps and tintin in the same clan. People number dosnt mater what maters is the shape.

I think Eternal would be in the exactly same postition if they had more members after this cheator busting.

Limits pisses people off. Limit of clan members, limit of buffs, limit energy. Why the hell you dont let people to play the game.

I mean why the hell we need clan limit? Then there was no clan limit in bots2 it was like the best times. clans like alliance tatanka... it was fun. most of the bots were in the clans. Why it has to be so complicated godammit.

If the limits go up, the active people will just score on 2, 3 bots at the same time.

I agree in increasing, but the point that Eternal or any other clan would be in the same position isn't really valid. Even without applying math this is obvious enough.

put 100 bots limit into clans --> you get 3 big clans, no one, and i mean NO ONE that comes into game after us will have a chance in years to come

public socializer, FUCK YEA

So others will score with two also. people is already using second bots to score. they uses whores to atack friends bots or make themselfs a new whores.

Theres always a way to go around the limit. I mostly understand all the limits but the clan size limit....just pisses me of. Lets make it 10, there will be more clans and stuff, more competition.

Anywayz ok 20 was reasonable number for Open beta, no bugs and stuff. But right now, I myself cant fit into 20 members size. I cant play as Id like to play. And Im sure Im not alone in this situation.

Limits pisses people off. Limit of clan members, limit of buffs, limit energy. Why the hell you dont let people to play the game.

well someone's being grouchy smurf :)

I do agree caps and limits generally suck though, but i'm against anarchy. Capitalism ftw. Everything is allowed, but has its price. If you want something bad enough, you'll pay for it (in-game, i dont mean real money).

So i agree clan size shouldn't be bound by a fixed limit. It should just be (really) expensive to have a large clan. Introduce a 'energy leak' or something. Every member over 20 means loss of X energy per hour. Exponential formula ofc.

Limits pisses people off. Limit of clan members, limit of buffs, limit energy. Why the hell you dont let people to play the game.

You know when you have a video game that you love and you one day decide to try the cheat codes for infinite ammo, unlimited lives, etc., and then the game is ruined? That's why there are limits in games. Your "I want it and I want it now" argument is shortsighted; I claim you don't actually know what you want.

The clan size limit will be staying at 20:

• It reduces the barriers for entry to being a top clan.
• It promotes more competition among clans.
• It makes clan managers be more selective and careful with their recruiting.
• It builds more camaraderie amongst members because you get to know each other better.

I recognize there are some problems with this setup such as not allowing for social members and such, and this will be addressed, but the effective cap will be staying at 20.

camaraderie, funny word.

Comrade Y'ri.

No offence, but comparing clanlimit to infinite ammo looks a bit stupid for me. I'm for clan size raising, but it will never happen, because of stupid idea "less people in clan makes more competetive clans". Yeah, don't compare last months of bots2 when game was died totally, compare best bots2 times when there were tons of competetive clans, some stronger and bigger, some weakier and smaller, but it was FUN. Not like it is now. Why people need to drop off their bots in few other clans, not the one they are playing for? Why do I need to score on 1 bot if I want to do it on 2?

But you can score on two, if you want.

smaller number limit does help new clans...

i remember one time ago, i had a clan, so dreamt of winning a month with that clan. It was a small clan, maybe 30 bots in it, not more than 8 players though, so i pulled all the strings i had, and made a respectable team. We made 1.5 million jans index.

Now, thats alot, it was fucking huge actually. But just then, two alot bigger clans decided to have outright war, both going over 2 mils JI (RON and IMMO). If the clan size limit would have been 20 bots then, we would have won. As it turned out, it was 100, so the smaller clans sucked dicks. And so did we, suck a big one.

:<

20 bots in clan FTW

No offence, but comparing clanlimit to infinite ammo looks a bit stupid for me.

How is comparing the idea of getting what you want, regardless of the analogies used, stupid?

He's simply stating that you playing the game as you are now promotes a healthy game. Competition, though it's obviously not easy, gives a challenge and makes the game actually fun. If you are granted more members, similar to having the cheat code for "unlimited ammo, god mode, etc.", then the game becomes less fun and actually becomes stale. Just like it did in Bots2.

I actually Do know what I want to say.

20 members per clan is too little:

1. Your friends cant join the clan.
2. People cant score on 2 or more bots.
3. Clans lose potential good players.
4. Some people need more time getting used to the game, but coz of this rule they dont have the time.
5. Yea sure now you can make a clan of nothing and be in a top with few days of work. Thats awesome?

I dont know why you people keep telling that you are trying to make a game which should be fun for new people, but keep on making rules which just scares them of.

Wining a month should be a big thing. It should need a team work, a work of months not days. I tryed to win a month for years in bots2, doing my own job with my own mates which i gather around me. And I did 3rd place for 3 months in a row and it was amazing. I was proud of it.

Right now with this new clan limit system Id take 3rd place myself.

^ +1

Your friends cant join the clan.

Ender has stated he is working on a system that will allow for "social" members.

People cant score on 2 or more bots.

I'm scoring on two bots in Eternal right now..

Clans lose potential good players.

And several potential good players find themselves clanless and wondering what to do, there is a very tiny possibility that the thought of "make a clan" will occur to them.

Some people need more time getting used to the game, but coz of this rule they dont have the time.

I'm not sure how you can say this, then in the same post say this:

Yea sure now you can make a clan of nothing and be in a top with few days of work.

Im saying not everyone know how to play godlike like you are playing. Anf they need time. But if they are doing bad they will be kicked coz we need a clan space.

Like usually it seems theres a big opinion diffrence between some people and it looks like it wont change.

Why decitions in this game is made by the small number of people which are more social.Why cant it be a democracy. Why for once someone couldnt ask the majority.

Just a simple pool "Do tou think a clan limit size should increase? yes no

If we would get no, Id shut up for the question. So as for many things people argued about

People would just start complaining about 30 wasn't enough probably.

I remember in WoW when the guild size was 40 our accomplishments were server mediocrty, even though we had outstanding members, we just had a lot of dead wood and didn't realise our potential because of this.

When it was reduced we slowly became server #1 after getting rid of the dead wood leaving only the outstanding players.

I feel the same way about the clan size in bots. The clans have a chance to prune the dead wood and have the best players in a clan.

I can sympathize with the friends and social stuff thing though.

"Ender is working" - he is not working, he is thinking/planning. If he does something then he does and we see the result. No blame here, he is a human like all of us.
And one argument against all yours: Will there be 100 members in clan or 20, dumping energy will win anyway. End of story. Get rid of pointless arguing

Why decitions in this game is made by the small number of people which are more social.Why cant it be a democracy. Why for once someone couldnt ask the majority.

This game wasn't created by a "democracy". Flor didn't let us run his game, and likewise you shouldn't expect this game's rules to be implemented by majority rule. This game is designed and ultimately ruled by Ender. You don't like his rules, then fuck off. End of story.

ye got this. Awhile ago.

I think ultimately the decision lies with the creator of the game, who has on several occasions stated that the clan size will remain the same.

Wow my post was late.

I agree with many of your points FNIX as I too feel 20 is too low as the game stands atm.

I had to ask a player to leave atreides because being a leveling bot they could not contribute to the clan. I hated being forced to do this because of size limitations. & without doubt your point of nurturing new & upcoming players is a very valid one.

However wiggin is developing a different clan set up to hopefully solve some of these issues. I eagerly await these changes :)

Reduce it :]

I think 20 is a good number. Though I might have went with 25, simply because it's 1/4th of the old limit, but no actual reason otherwise. i think the smaller limit to promote growth is a very nice idea and hope it remains 20 for the foreseeable future.

Too much FUD in here to respond to. I agree with neps's inline replies post. Half of the claims made by people who want the limit increased I agree with and will be addressing, and the other half are bogus. The "we should have a design by committee democracy" argument is particularly laughable.

because of stupid idea "less people in clan makes more competetive clans"

How is this in any way not true? Calling something stupid proves nothing FYI. Please describe to me in detail how I am wrong about smaller clans leading to more competition. If you guys want a game where the team with the most members wins, go find another game where you can zerg each other to your heart's content. And that is specifically directed at the "biggerer is awesomer" crowd, not the "I want social members" crowd.

I love the idea(smaller "competitive" clans) and hope it stays.

This thread delivers!

This thread delivers!

I'm glad this is catching on. :)

+1 to nos' statement.

No mater how many bots are in the clan practically its the same number of people.

You are telling me it was more people in 12 Monkeys back in bots2 than it is now in Atreides?

Not really exept everyone was happy having 2 or more bots in the clan.

Seriuosly 1 bot in clan is nonsence. Coz theres a limit of energy you can gain and after variuos number of fights especially in higher level you run out of targets. AND YOU CANT PLAY. You cant play for your clan. You cant play with your other bot for your clan. What can you do? Make whores? Somekind of bullshit.

What I think, this game always balances between dieing and staying alive. And it needs some boost all the time. And this limit for clan member size is totaly nonsece.

Then clans got around in bots2 they always meant to be biger thing, biger than 20, coz 20 is nothing.100 members per clan was perfect for this game. 20 doesnt have an influence. You cant feel this number. And clans should not be the name to score for, but the huge company. And people should be afraid of this huge company.

How is this in any way not true?

Do you really think that member cap raise will change the scoring, the leaderboards and so on?
Laugh at people more, you are becoming somekind of new "active" flor in my eyes :) And btw I like how nos is licking your ass in every single discussion :)) gg

Do you really think that member cap raise will change the scoring, the leaderboards and so on? Laugh at people more, you are becoming somekind of new "active" flor in my eyes :) And btw I like how nos is licking your ass in every single discussion :)) gg

I love how you interpret me expressing my feelings, even though they may be along the similar lines of Ender, as me licking his ass. I suppose that obviously means if you're "following" someones lead then you're quite licking their ass as well. Nicely stated, Fuck Stick, very nicely stated indeed. Anyway, back to the point and obviously more important discussion of this thread. Which, in case you failed to note, is the 20 member limit in a clan.

Seriuosly 1 bot in clan is nonsence. Coz theres a limit of energy you can gain and after variuos number of fights especially in higher level you run out of targets. AND YOU CANT PLAY. You cant play for your clan. You cant play with your other bot for your clan. What can you do? Make whores? Somekind of bullshit.

1 bot per clan should be how it is. I like the idea of having 1 main bot, and only that bot is important in the clan race. I remember the good old days where creating between 2-5 bots to have them all in the same clan and score on them all (albeit not all at the same time) but the idea behind the 20 member limit is a very valid one and though I may have stated it's Ender's game and he ultimately decides the rules, that doesn't mean people can't like the rules he makes.

As far as "energy limit due to level", you design your bot, no one else does. I understand you may level quickly at the lower levels, but no one here made you level your bot past the "prime" levels for gaining energy to build a specific build. You did that one all on your own. You have no one to blame for this point except for yourself.

No mater how many bots are in the clan practically its the same number of people

I know for a fact that that is not true.

Now.

If there is one thing that became evident when this game left beta and people started to play "seriously" again, it is the difference between people who cannot adapt/cope with change and the people who can.

At first I hated freaked builds, for example. (inb4 "you're comparing clansize to botbuilding wtf," it's an analogy.) I hated them because I wanted to build the old stuff, the tried and tested BOTS2 perfect builds that I knew were a safe choice, no the best choice. But this game isn't BOTS2. (still news to a lot of people here apparently) I decided, wtf, then I'll freak my bot too. I'll need to learn the basics, then learn new stuff, but who hates learning? I don't think anyone hates learning new stuff, except people who are afraid of change.

The moment I let go of my preconceived notion that "bots should always have the stats for their equipment," I joined the group of players who freak their bots and enjoy the subsequent benefits. The sooner you learn to accept change, the sooner you learn to deal with it. Otherwise, dying out is pretty much the only option, or sucking.

For more on this philosophy of how to accept and deal with change in your life, this book may be helpful:

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/

(I am not being sarcastic, this is actually a pretty good book.)

"Where is all this going?" you may ask. In a nutshell:

The sooner you accept that this isn't BOTS2, but a new game, and the changes that this fact implies, (in this particular case, clansize,) the sooner you can start enjoying this game, or move on to a new game, if that is what this change implies for you.

+1 to neps

Very nicely stated neps, very nicely stated indeed.

Laugh at people more, you are becoming somekind of new "active" flor in my eyes :) And btw I like how nos is licking your ass in every single discussion :)) gg

It's nonsense replies like these that make me think twice about participating in a lot of the threads in this subforum. If I disagree with your idea, be prepared to defend them. Simply putting it out there isn't enough.

+1 to neps. This all reeks of change aversion.

neps +loads

Having said that, i stand by my principle of 'limitations suck'

"who moved my cheese?" Nice, I look forward to this catching on.

Also;

People number dosnt mater what maters is the shape.

That's what he (guy-with-small-penis) said...

Matters*

You don't correct spelling if you're going to quote it. Spelling errors & grammar mistakes are to be quoted as well, go to a writing class and you will learn this. In other words, if you wanted to correct his horrible English, you should have done it after the original statement, not the quote.

spelling rules 101

Sorry Nos

It's ok, just check this thread everytime Off or FNIX says something. They both have horrible English, you can correct them all day. :P

I think it is wrong to mock the spelling & grammar of non english speakers.

Try conversing in lithuanian & see how you fare.

Limitations make it easier for clans to startup. Don't see that as a bad thing really.

As a young lad I didn't even know Filipino/Tagalog, (national language), only our local dialect. When I moved to my the capital, I had to learn. Then I started using teh internetz and had to learn English. Ugh.

"who moved my cheese?" Nice, I look forward to this catching on.

It's actually the first time I found one of those cheesy "self improvement" books actually helpful. You know, Seven Habits, etc, all those cheesy preachy seminar talk books that cost too much. Unlike those, it's a really great (and cheap) book, and can be read in like ten minutes, and is not boring at all, but very thought provoking and etertaining to a fair degree. Next time someone posts another "back in bots2" whine, I'll just repost the link.

At my point of view the game didnt change at all. It just became more complicated

Now levels is bad - you dont have the targets.(nonsence for level having absolutely NO advantage in clan race)

Freaked builds - works for people who has money or work their ass to get some stars, huge disadvantage.

You dont atack whores, whores atacks you. Whores is harder to build coz those bots has to be perfect builds and again needs stars for proper whoring them for the moment.

I know life changes neps, it is a good thing. But some things doesnt look logic in the game.

How this game is Enders? floR made it, Ender just repeats him in hes way, but he borowed the idea, he used some of the jans ideas in this new version of the game. +1 to him for that. I really appreciate it, but I dont agree on some of the issues. Im sure if more people will play this game they will see it too tho. And I also hope that more people will come and talk in forums, coz right now its mostly the same circle of several people.

Dont judge my english. Coz I mostly speak it here.

+1 for the buffs tho

http://www.whomovedmycheese.com/

I'll post it for you.

At my point of view the game didnt change at all. It just became more complicated

The game completed changed. It might have the outer appearance of the game whcih flor created, it is not the same. It has been remade in Ender's eyes. This wont change, nor will his views, and the sooner you accept this the better. Embrace this game as a new game, not a B.O.T.S.][ clone, which is obviously what you expect and want.

Now levels is bad - you dont have the targets.(nonsence for level having absolutely NO advantage in clan race)

You quite obviously didn't play the game(B.O.T.S.][) in it's very early stages. Higher levels were very bad as well when I first started playing early 2004. Level 80 - 110 where also the prime levels to obtain "Clan Score". It wasn't until later that the levels grew as the game matured. That will occur eventually here. You have to give the game time. It's only been 2 1/2 months.

Freaked builds - works for people who has money or work their ass to get some stars, huge disadvantage.

Again, this might be achieved "easier" with stars, but general freaking can be achieved without them. Granted, the difficulty of sustaining a freaked bot as you progress is even more difficult with out stars, it is not entirely impossible.

You dont atack whores, whores atacks you. Whores is harder to build coz those bots has to be perfect builds and again needs stars for proper whoring them for the moment.

This is just the way the system as worked out so far. I don't like the "dumping" tactic either, but you take away the "whore" system, this is what you're left with. Also, "whores" are being removed, hopefully. This is/was Ender's intent all along. That is his goal. To have "real wars", not whore wars.

I know life changes neps, it is a good thing. But some things doesnt look logic in the game.

I don't understand what you're referring to here?

How this game is Enders? floR made it, Ender just repeats him in hes way, but he borowed the idea, he used some of the jans ideas in this new version of the game. +1 to him for that. I really appreciate it, but I dont agree on some of the issues. Im sure if more people will play this game they will see it too tho. And I also hope that more people will come and talk in forums, coz right now its mostly the same circle of several people.

Again, I'll reiterate. Ender might have borrowed the "shell" that was B.O.T.S.][ and designed his game around it, this game is a new game. The feel and look is the same, but the core mechanics ar changing. Ender wants to progress, not remain stagnant, so expect many more updates that might put us on an ever further path away from the B.O.T.S.][ core design.

Dont judge my english. Coz I mostly speak it here.

I apologize. I am a grammar and spelling Nazi. I'll refrain from "poking fun or talking down" to you but I'll still most likely correct you. Don't take offense, it's just me being me.

+1 for the buffs tho

After your entire speech of wanting the game to remain the same you state this? Seriously?

Nos, what is your scoring bot?

I don't see the reasoning in you requiring my "scoring" bot. Therefor you wont be getting it.

Coz I like to know if some ppl support this new system that they are playing the game and not just reading the forum all day long.

~Tito

I support this system all the way, requires a little work, yes, but not in the increase clansize direction, and I'd like to think I'm fairly active.

How can you differentiate my opinion regardless of whether I score or not. I play this game day in and day out. I played Bots2 from early 2004 until the day the server was taken offline. I understand the exact point that Ender is trying to achieve with smaller clan sizes and I completely agree with him on it. I think it does promote a very healthy clan race.

Albeit it's quite obviously not going to happen in the first couple of months, and I wish the tactics that have been spawned wouldn't have been, but it's what we have and I am certain Ender is thinking of ways to limit it so it is a PvP environment.

Bump.

Make it 25 members. Rapture currently has 14 bots sitting in the NC ranks. Now, not all are ready to score, but at least 5 of them are. We keep changing out bots just to get the "best" one in. It makes to difficult if you want everyone to help that wants to. It's almost to the point of "If you can't get 100k energy, we will replace you". That's a horrible tactic. We want to go hard all we can, but if we can't have everyone to help us that wants to, what is the point?

Really it could be a 100 limit on the active members cause people will build more bots for every clan no matter what the limit is. I could make 30 excellent scoring bots but don't have the need to. It would definately make for more competition in the future if it was raised. I personally don't like the 'Dumping' but it is what it is. and i will not do it to win because i think that is cheating and don't care what anyone else says!!!!!

Dumping is how the game "Evolved". If we don't like it leave right?

Of course, smaller groups of people will make more bots to have the optimum clan. We however, have double accounts, but can't use them because we actually have 25 different members that want to be in the clan.

The clan size limit will be staying at 20... I recognize there are some problems with this setup such as not allowing for social members and such, and this will be addressed, but the effective cap will be staying at 20.

^Ender's words. Wasting your time, give it up.

Also, Ender has said he is going to be limiting/eliminating "dumping" so any arguments about that are moot.

You're so cool Allotrope.

No, we don't leave. We beat them by doing it right. Just cause people don't want to level they do this. It's actually way faster to just fight with the main bot if your on the right lvl. It's really not that hard to make bots that score but..........

Bots4 = Facebook.

People are addicted to it, live life around it, yet it changes all the time because Facebook thinks what they do/make, everyone likes. Wrong.

Facebook thinks what they do/make, everyone likes. Wrong.

Made me lol, and right or wrong, it'll be used until it becomes normal.

When will we see this anti-dumping update??????!!!!!!!!

A FB Bots4 comparison.

Give me a sec...

LMAO

It was made by Alan,

So give me a sec....

Nope, nothing coming.