suggestions

I think max EPH should scale with level. At the moment clans only need levelers for filling treasury and they won't be getting any top clan plats etc. (except Khael if Escapism won).

DISCUSS PLEASE

I like this idea a lot. Change max EPH to level of the bot, while keeping the level 20-60 bots at 60 EPH max.

This was one of the finer points of bots2. Jans index used to achieve the thing you're talking about. But in a simple sense what you want to do here is do something like this:

Level 40 bot with high ratio/wins: 60 EPH
Level 70 bot with high ratio/wins: 80? or something EPH
Level 100 bot with high ratio/wins: 100 EPH

Something like have a set gain of EPH per level. Like maybe 1 per level or 0.5 per level. A level 20 with the 1 per level thing would be able to do 20 EPH. A level 150 should be doing 150 max EPH. We could keep the min EPH at 20 all along as we do now. Now lets discuss what happens when this happens:

The game goes back to the old bots4 where people could gain erroneous amounts of energy by just idling. On my main bot in Eternal years ago I would get 100k+ per month by doing absolutely nothing. All for having a good ratio and a fairly high level (115 or something).

We changed it so that lower level bot could fight with higher level bots and have an even playing field. The system as it stands is perfectly fine in this respect. I among others fought for the change to what we have now and having 20 EPH for whores (it was 5). As it stands I don't even particularly like the energy system but it at least functions for most people.

I think that by getting to 379lvl you'd deserve 272880 monthly energy, for all the hard work you've done.
-Samuli

Possibly cap it in levels? like the attack limits are?

Level 40 bot with high ratio/wins: 60 EPH
Level 70 bot with high ratio/wins: 80? or something EPH
Level 100 bot with high ratio/wins: 100 EPH

Not at all, level 20 to level 60, regardless of wins/ratio has a max EPH of 60. Exactly how it stands right now. Level 61 gets a max EPH of 61, 70 has a max EPH of 70, etc.

The game goes back to the old bots4 where people could gain erroneous amounts of energy by just idling. On my main bot in Eternal years ago I would get 100k+ per month by doing absolutely nothing. All for having a good ratio and a fairly high level (115 or something).

You are misconstruing the idea completely. It's simply countering the lack of targets the higher you level by altering your MAX EPH to equal your level.

We changed it so that lower level bot could fight with higher level bots and have an even playing field. The system as it stands is perfectly fine in this respect. I among others fought for the change to what we have now and having 20 EPH for whores (it was 5). As it stands I don't even particularly like the energy system but it at least functions for most people.

This isn't going to change that fact, if anything, like was mentioned in chat more people might level to reap the small benefits of having a higher EPH cap leaving the people who actually enjoy fighting bots at lower levels to clean up all the energy down there.

I'm not keen on the idea, like Zal said higher level bots will gain energy quicker and although lower level bots have more targets, you still need to log on and click to gain the energy, but if that's what people want I'm not overly fussed. :)

No.. it wont work if you just have it scaling per level without limitations.. a level 300 bot with good enough ratio gets 216k free energy per month without fighting? I'd doubt people will be happy with that.

With cap limitations it makes more sense to generate more per hour as per the attack limits because you can attack the target more times hence you should be able to receive more energy from them..

Just my thoughts though who am I to know =]

With cap limitations it makes more sense to generate more per hour as per the attack limits because you can attack the target more times hence you should be able to receive more energy from them..

This is worse than my idea. It only gives higher level bots the higher EPH, which leaves the lower level bots completely at a disadvantage.

ah im not really sure which bots are your and which arent so I dont really get what your suggestion is.

Im saying if it was to be raised it makes sense to raise it by the attack limitations. It is like with most games where the higher you level the "potential" to gain should be more, it is only because of the mechanics of the game where everyone uses dumpers that makes it non-ideal to increase the EPH but this takes "time" and hence an investment rather than being a lower level bot and reaping the same amount of rewards.

Your suggestion puts a level 99 bot on the same ground as a level 51 bot, a 149 on the same field as a 101, and every 200+ bot the same (which is what I'm trying to change) and I don't agree with that, and neither do you by your own admission. Mine would make every level scale evenly and at a more rational rate.

Sounds like the folks that use low level dumpers as their tactic, which is like PvHimself for energy, would have to switch to PVP. This sounds closer to 'real wars' as you are actually then fighting other people! And some people want real wars I've read in the past. Or they'd have to level their dumpers if they wanted to continue to use the same strategy for the energy race. The one with the most time devoted to leveling either themselves (creating more real people energy to fight amongst) and or dumpers would then win, putting a big spin on the leveling tactic employed now to level people out of the range with huge number of low level dumpers.

Isn't the point of a RPG-like game to level and become stronger which then will make more potential for gains? That is what this suggestion sounds like, however folks don't like it because they won't be able to use their low level situation to win monthly energies, they would have to level for bigger number to compete, or dumpers are abandoned for the next easier method whatever that may turn out to be after the change made.

I'm confused by this thread because it's like I tried to explain what samuli and Nos were trying to say but they didn't give any damn details. If your plans are so good in your head, why not explain them? I feel like this is a continuation of a chat between a few people and I got in the way :P

@Trio Bots is an RPG where you're rewarded for grinding the hell out of a few bots that give lots of energy (for your special skills I suppose aka clan rank lol) and not a lot of xp (max gain for least effort). If bots were to become a true RPG we'd have to either rid of clans or enhance them/the energy system. People don't want to level because this is a social multiplayer game focused on clans, not the single player experience of training.

I just think that rewarding higher level bots with more energy is the wrong way of going about this. I wish there was something else we could give them. Many other games give them specialized benefits like if a clan gets an average level of 100 or something with 20+ member you get lower treasury or high amount of stash space for everything etc.

But at the end of the day none of this will be implemented because the amount of effort involved is either too low (just up the EPH) or too high (renovate the entire energy system and its formulas). You're better off making your own game lol.

Isn't the point of a RPG-like game to level and become stronger which then will make more potential for gains? That is what this suggestion sounds like, however folks don't like it because they won't be able to use their low level situation to win monthly energies, they would have to level for bigger number to compete, or dumpers are abandoned for the next easier method whatever that may turn out to be if the change made.

*fixed

This sucks

I fully support this idea. It would help higher level bots gain energy (which they should be rewarded for reaching a high level) and make it easier for them to dump as higher level dumpers are a bitch to make.

Also, it doesn't change things to much because you can still only move 20 energy per fight or whatever, and rape limits would stay the same.

There's tons of plus's to this, I'll try to elaborate more later.

Also, you could use ratio to balance out EPH if you raised it..

Yes, thank you Crab, should be if. I was thinking hypothetically so after was in its place.

All I want is for Ender to add the script to the game to remove all the targets with no available energy. I'm not a programmer but this should be really easy. Just put in a check box and copy/paste

Fish already made that SirPaul. He just didn't make it into a full script. It's a text document. You can find it here.

I just think that rewarding higher level bots with more energy is the wrong way of going about this. I wish there was something else we could give them. Many other games give them specialized benefits like if a clan gets an average level of 100 or something with 20+ member you get lower treasury or high amount of stash space for everything etc.

I have never played a game where level isn't met with more. It's always, in every game I play, that the higher you level, the more rewards and perks you are granted. So why is there so much oppression to this idea of rewarding players who level higher with more? And in this case it's not even a huge amount more. And the progression of more is in a linear path so everyone leveling gets the bonus. Level 71 bot gets Max EPH of 71, Level to level 96? Then you get the perk of having your Max EPH 96. It gives more for leveling higher, which is in my opinion, keeping with the spirit of obtaining more when you level up.

I dont see how this would make the monthly energy race fair .. you are the one who decided to level and knew there isnt much energy up there so you should be able to deal with the consequences.

I still think higher levels have perks that make up for the low amount of targets, For you nos..you can dump 300 attacks worth of energy to your bot a day, thats 3 times more than me... also your dumpers ratios only have to be like 0.8 where as mine are 2.0.

I'm sorry but the idea is crazy.

I'll give a good example of why it's not a good idea:

This is May 2012's Clan HOF

Look at the clan Ophidian. A tribe with 20 level 75s at the time (I believe it was all level 75 bots). They gained 8th place and got 1,482,578 energy (x1.00) aka doing nothing.

This is October 2014's Clan HOF

Ophidian is still there in 18th place. They are now all level 100 and have a lower average ratio than before. They still all gain 60 EPH. They gained 892,800 (x1.00).

This is a level 330 Myriad's energy from October 2012

17 [330] Nebulus Fayde Myriad 34 171,291 17 3,655,649 426,721 (x1.06)

Yeah, let's all go back to the times where after you gained a good level you could expect to gain a top 25 pretty much every month for nothing. Stop talking about going backwards. We made it this way to encourage casuals and new players to have fun and have a fair chance.

this sucks

This is one of the reasons why I <3 you chimpus. So eloquent :)

I'm not completely saying this idea is amazing. I like it and think it's fitting for a game that when you level you get rewarded.

That being said simply saying "it sucks" or "this idea is stupid" is productive or constructive criticism. If you can't illustrate to us why our ideas aren't "good" or why you dislike them (like Zal is doing) then leave your comments out because they won't be given any thought by me, and hopefully not by Ender either.

How about this.... You don't like being a leveler, reset. Make a low level energy scorer. You don't want to reset, MAKE ANOTHER BOT. This idea has no grounds.

You tell em sirpaul!

And I did illustrate, I illustrated the perks high levels have over low levels when it comes to what this thread is about... gaining energy. Besides even if this suggestion was implemented which i doubt highly..It would be a long way away as we are still waiting on perm stars, tournaments and pve etc etc.

How about this.... You don't like being a leveler, reset. Make a low level energy scorer. You don't want to reset, MAKE ANOTHER BOT. This idea has no grounds.

Great solution. Took the time to build a high level bot but now you want to score energy, well fuck you. Yes, great message to send to players.

In bots2 we had that old grumpy Jans index which made high lvl bots valuable for clans. Currently going higher lvl has no real reward. I don't see how bigger rape limit is a GREAT perk. Energy is what you harvest for clan competition, not wins. Max EPH is 60 whatever your bot level is and lower level dumpers are a lot easier to maintain.

And Zal, EPH wasnt really capped when we had those crazy EPH days. I remember neps having over 1000 eph for half month, with this change you'd need over 1000lvl bot for the same thing to happen :)

If something like this suggestion won't be happening in "near" future then I think this game needs atleast that PvE system which was "promised" in Dec 2012.

It just doesn't make sense, why should people with higher levels gain so much and literally have to do nothing all month. To me it promotes a message of "just make a leveling bot it's easier" which changes the whole game. So I stand by my statement IT SUCKS!

It would just make more people level there bots again. I would personaly level my bot if i knew there was going to be more eph in it for me.

Something could work but the cap should be raised higher, Just not to a stupid amount of where people can idle and still make it high in the energy race.

Chimpus: if you'd even bother to play with the numbers, you would propably realize that its not promoting "just make a leveling bot it's easier".

For example: Xerex, lvl 379, his EPH would be 379, 24hours in a day, about 30 days in a month.
379x24x30=272,880 which isnt much for a guy who spends 5.5 hours a day playing bots4, supplying kudos to his clan. A clan full of 379lvl bots would have placed 2nd last month.
I'm pretty sure that even with this change 130lvl blasters would be the best way to go.

-Samuli

272k for doing nothing? Seems fair! You chose to make a scorer to get energy, and you chose to make a leveling bot to gain levels. Why change that

He has spent over 300days clicking links to get there. I guess you can call that "doing nothing".

I think that a change like this could make energy race more interesting and even activate some people. Maybe not exactly scale with your level but atleast EPH cap should be higher on higher levels.

-Samuli

But the thing I don't agree with is somebody getting 272k a month and not having to do anything for that, people will just make high level bots and leave them idling doing nothing in clans to boost score.

^ spot on there chimp, although I do like the idea of Eph being raised

I would like to see you "just build" a 379lvl bot.

Levelers should be rewarded. Ender has talked about PvE forever, and nothing has happened. This would be a great way to reward levelers.

low levels should be rewarded for for watching fights over and over with low damage.

-pothead

Low level's are already rewarded with easy energy and the most targets.

High level have none.

As already mentioned, high levels are rewarded with easier to maintain eph on dumpers and a higher attack limit...you cant just fall back to the amount of targets every time. If you want more targets level some whores for yourself or make a bot where there is targets. But high levels dont deserve rewarding any more than other bots.

-pothead

We will agree to disagree.

plus one ofcourse :), raise me

I'm not saying "I'll just build a level 379 bot" don't twist my words. What I'm saying is why should people get rewarded for choosing the levelling route? That's there choice, why change the dynamics of the game because they aren't happy with there choice? If you want energy then make a scorer. Plain and simple. 272k a month for free is just ridiculous.

Zal, that old forumla used # of wins and ratio in the equation. Ophidian is a poor example imo too. The reason dumper clans got/get high in the ranks is because there are hardly any clans of 20 actual players.

I think something simple like (Max EPH = Level) would be fair if it were to be changed at all.

Its strange people arent being very objective with their arguements.

Although I dont entirely agree with increasing it per level it would raise some interesting questions as to whether actual clan attacks would happen if this was the case especially in the case of higher bots who may possibly be holding more int.

If the formula for max eph is to be changed at all, I personally believe that MaxEPH = Level is a bit too much,and makes higher level bots too overpowered. maybe +1 EPH for every 10 levels.

maybe +1 EPH for every 10 levels.

We discussed this on forums as well. I think this would be a decent compromise.

The issue also with it scaling per level also which was brought up is the difference in ratio that is needed to maintain the 60eph.

If you were to gain the benefit of having a higher EPH then I think the same rules should apply regardless of levels (as in EPH should be calculated off wins, ratio) and then Max EPH is calculated off level.

Kind of unfair if a level 100+ bot has >60EPH whilst maintaining windump stats

+1 per 10 levels seems fair and I can deal with something like that, just not 272k for free lol

Yes then it's 61 eph for level 10, 90 eph for level 300

hmm, maybe 5 would be a better number..

I still think 1 or 0 as the high level training bots are in the leveling race and scorers are in the energy race. Shouldn't change it.

The point is to make the game more competitive, allow people that train to gather energy. Would spark the clan race a little more.

Why not have a suggestion that adds on to the game? It gives the game depth.