complaints

Stupid energy system, how the fuck its btter than clan score system? same fucking whores same, fucking raping, expet you need fucking stars to play it proper. and your whores has to rape you, WTF?

EPH ... 109,207 (x1.52(WTF those confusing numbers?)) I do get it but why the fuck? Freaked bots? WTF? better, more arrmors more weapons more shields, what we have now its fucked up.

+1 trophies

i agree 100% with you +1 mate

Even if it was still clanscore, you would still use dumpers. Dumpers are used because of buffs.

hurr durr so many numbers i confused! i do get it but why the fuck? hurr durr i want bots2 back oh but +1 tropyszs i want bots2 better there we winned

PS Rapture is awesomest team ever

lol what a a bitch, fuck you bitch.

Had to release it. I dont like it. This new system is crap. Ye I pretty much liked bots2 system, it had its minuses, but after all, compared to this, its was pretty much awesome.

Ok it is what it is. My sugestion to Ender, make another server (like in bots2), which would be "clasic" with the old rules, I kinda think much of the people would come back. And fellas could chose play it new way or play it the clasic way. Everyone will be happy, plus im 100% even more donations would come from "clasic" server. Id even donate myself, for the first time :)

PS.,

Yes bitch, my team is the best.

Another server, classic style. I like it! I want it also! :D

this should definatley happen! :D

+1

hurr durr i dun like this system we no win i want change the rulez to what we want only reason were not winning is because ender made a bad game, i dun want a new game whatev i'll just go play bots2 im very awesome there hurr durr oh wait i cant log in bots2

^ Fail troll is fail.

I think it'd split our already small community and make it even smaller, causing both servers to fail. People say clan competing it boring now... there will even more bitching if we split into two servers.

I'm not against the idea, just being realistic.

with gpof

two servers worked when there were lockouts from getting online because there were to many players logged on

not a bad idea

just probably not best for the big picture just yet

Human history summarized: some people winning, some people whining about how life is unfair. Nothing to see here, moving on.

neps being neps, LIKE A FUCKING BOSS. Adapt to survve or get the fuck out. You don't have to play Ender's "new" Bots.

<-------logout link is that way.

survive*

Did I say anything about unfair? Im not saying its unfair. Im saying its bad, its not competitive. Im saying it just doesnt work. And I give you a solution, sure you are against it, coz most of the people who would like this will prolly wont log in in a month or something.

6 bots (from 6 unique IP addresses) this aint cool with me, people dont play the game coz in the way it is now, it just sucks. I dont really understand how you r not seeing this. Prolly coz your minds are all fucked up after getting those amaizing confusing numbers into your bot details.

The competition is your main argument on why the new system is bad? This new system requires more effort to make good whores/dumpers. The old cs system you just make shitty bots and fight them all day on your scorer. At least with energy you actually have to make a good bot if you want to keep the energy. This is literally real wars, because you need an army of good bots to win.

Using competition as the leverage to say the old system was better makes absolutely no sense.

This subject has been brought up a lot of times. Sure, it's different and you don't like it, but Ender put a lot of effort into bots4 and the energy system, and actively takes requests from users to better the game. So calling the system "fucked up" isn't exactly the most constructive criticism.

i agree whit fnixuz

What do you agree with lol? All he's saying is energy sucks and clanscore is good. The only reason he gave for saying that is because it was more competitive. Sorry, but trying to click "fight again" more than everyone is far from competition. I've got nothing against the old cs system and I'm not a big fan of this new one either, but if you want to say one is better than the other at least put some logic behind your reasoning.

Forgot to add a bit more.

This is in the complaints thread, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and guess the real reason you like cs and hate energy is because you're too lazy to make a bunch of good bots for dumping. And seeing as you don't have/haven't bought stars, you can't freak either. (or too lazy to camp all the freaking shit)

That would make plenty of sense, and I can relate to that. But the argument you gave us won't work.

that^

if everyone is to read that, take it in and think about it before posting then half of the posts would be nonexistent, the rest would be my spam.... you're welcome :P

Ok, why the old system is better than new one:

First, Old system had diplomacy, clans could make alliances, could go to war. Yeah it all was pretty much about the whores, but it was fun, becouse you had to make friends. Clan needed to have allies becouse it was too hard for a clan to win on their own. The best clan to maneuver between had the best chance to win.

Second, even whores sucked, but everyone had a chance to use them. Setting a hostile atleast. Now some fuckers(no lifers) work all day to make whores for themselfs, they think they own the game, but noone really cares (exept few fags) coz its owning something you are competeting alone at.

Have to go now, laters will think out something more.

Thank you for putting out some good reasons! :D I can definitely agree with most of what you said. It definitely made it feel like you scored as a team rather than everyone scoring for themselves.

I think the energy system isn't so bad though, but you're right about it being an every man for himself kinda thing. (for the most part anyway) That doesn't bother me personally but it's just preference and I certainly see why some people don't like it.

My positive notes on the systems...

Clanscore:

• Easier for new players (more likely to get new long-term players)
• Activity is needed to get high ranks
• Clans have more of a team focus like you stated

Energy:

• Requires more effort but less activity (obviously more activity still helps though)
• Focuses on better builds for both scorers and dumpers/whores
• Idle energy (could easily be argued as a bad thing, but I like it cause I be lazy)

I guess I might as well list what I think is bad too...

Clanscore:

• All you do is click fight again, to me that's boring and stale.
• Once you have enough whores, there's no point in making more bots.
• Getting high HoF ranks for clanscore takes fucking forever if you join the game after it's out for 10 years.

Energy:

• Making dumpers is almost mandatory to keep up with other players, I honestly hate building multiple bots.
• All of the numbers used to calculate energy can be confusing to new or younger players.
• It sucks when the only targets left for you to attack have 3.0 ratios and you don't want to level.

Call me crazy, but I think clanscore comes out on top here.

Clanscore definatley comes out on top. I enjoyed the old system, I remember starting to play bots2 and found it so much easier to score as a noob then I did when I started on bots4. Clanscore is the way to go if you want to get this came more popular or active, at the moment although a freshing new take to the game the new energy system is damaging the popularity of the game and also how active people are. Personally I think that if you return back to the clanscore system, more people will start playing, more people will be active which means more donations and more popularity of the game. Also it will help to keep new players!

i think i liked CS better, but i don't have a problem with the energy thingo

i've never used dumpers, and managed to come in 15th last month and am currently 13th for this month ^^

i think energy system would be nicer if "freaking" wasn't possible.

History always gets glorified. Start living in the present fnix ;)

Energy is better.

• Less mindless. Instead of an elementary "click once, get two score," now there are a lot of other factors to take into account, which is for me a good thing, though I understand how some people might dislike having to think.

• An element of risk. With CS, there was no way for a warred or hostile bot to take away your CS. I find it funny that the only way to "harm" a bot's CS would be to be allied or friendly towards it. Lol?

• It rewards work. 'Nuff said.

• It rewards good bot-building. Good bots keep their energy, be they dumpers or "main" bots. Bad bots don't. With CS, bad bots = good source of CS. I don't like a system where I need to make bad bots.

• And finally, I guess the most obvious reason why I like energy is because I own at it. Not exactly a logical argument, not really something that would hold up in court, but trying to communicate my feelings on this matter, I think the best way to put it would be:

"u mad bro?"

Compromise and meet in the middle, have clanscore but let anybody be able to take your energy :)

Gpof the ore i read your post the more i think you are an idiot. You say that csing is basically to easy cause you just click the fight again link. well wtf do you do with dumpers? oh thats right you click the fight again link. man i must have forgot the difference there.

I don't really think the two systems are that different tbh. Both require you to build a lot of bots (dumpers or whores) to score efficiently. Levels and wins/ratio are important in both. Under both systems, hard work is rewarded.

The only real difference is that you need to have perfect or close to perfect builds on your dumpers and main, which pigeon-holes bots into only a few builds at any given level. That makes the learning curve pretty steep for new players who want to be a part of a clan. Dumpers are also pretty exclusive to the maker and perhaps a few close clanmates, whereas whores were available for everyone.

So imo the cs system was more newb-friendly, but aside from that the systems are pretty similar.

um energy is easier then cs just saying. besides the whores and dumpers..all u haveto do is idle to get energy. Some of the higher levels collect alot of energy through out the month by just idling. While in cs you had ot actually work your ass off for it. Why get energy while idling? why not have to work your ass off for it as well?

i think people that want CS back are the people that see things like this, dumpers control the way people get to the top here. if you look at the top 10 energy its all off of people that just get what they can for their lvl and maybe 5-10 lvls up and then use dumpers for the rest which happens to be like 95% of their score. cs is all about how fast you can kill the whores and how much time you put into fighting

What I'd like from BOTS:

• a system where you do not have to build hordes of additional bots (dumpers or whores)
• something that is new player friendly, but not ridiculously easy
• is not regimented, so players can choose their preference (training, scoring, building etc)
• has random elements (item enhancements etc) to encourage more creative building & less cookie cutter builds
• something that encourages team play but does not exclude single players

I think wiggin has gone a way toward this, trophies for instance are marvellous and buffs are pretty neat. Overall he's done a super job at building, running & improving this game :)

But do I like the energy system, No.

Would I like to return to cs, No.

Gpof the ore i read your post the more i think you are an idiot. You say that csing is basically to easy cause you just click the fight again link. well wtf do you do with dumpers? oh thats right you click the fight again link. man i must have forgot the difference there.

I didn't say cs was easy, it requires a lot of activity. However it does not take any effort. Building shitty bots for your whole clan to attack is not difficult. With the energy system you need good whores/dumpers, and that requires much more effort, from all members. But the speed at which energy can be taken makes the energy system require less activity than cs to do well.

i've said it before and ill say it again. a game that is based on money is how this game runs now. look at every member and NC of eternal. total of what four thousand dollars spent on stars and buying bots? gee i wish i could no life this game and waste money on basically buying first place every month. it would mean the world to me

I think a major step in stopping dumping would be put a really strict ratio limit.

Like the 40x like it was in Bots2 back in the day. Then it got changed to 100x.

Leotis

not every member buys stars. There are some people that build bots for people or lone dumper clans off for stars. Those are just examples. theres other ways to get stars from other players not just buying them

Ratio limits wouldn't stop dumping, especially now that having high ratio dumpers actually benefits you immensely.

I didn't say it wouldn't stop it. I just said one way to detour it.

This is tricky. Both systems have their flaws and there's obviously no perfect system that everyone will like. I'm not in favor of splitting up the playerbase into multiple servers with different rulesets at this point - we're already a pretty small community and it would be a lot of implementation/maintenance work, so that option isn't on the table.

As for bringing about change and improvements to what we have now, you have to remember this game only has a single developer (and more devs is not on the table either :)). Scrapping what we have now and rebuilding something new is very unlikely to happen. Changes are more likely to come incrementally on specific aspects of the current system. For example, I'll share what I think could be improved about the energy system:

• Dumpers - The fact that it's more effective to score on a dumper bot than your main bot is largely a side effect of the buff system. Buffs make your gameplay much more efficient, but they cost trophy points, so it's more effective to use fresh dumpers with lots of available points. Having to do this dance to compete at the very top levels (you can still do pretty well without them, Spazz is an example) indicates the system is broken. I want it so that you can spend 100% of your time in a month on a single bot and come out on top of the monthly rankings.

• EPH - I'm torn on this. On one hand, I don't like that the value you're ranked by (monthly energy) can rise while you are inactive. The value a bot is ranked by would ideally require direct action to increase, like clan score. On the other hand, I like that it solves the problems it was introduced to solve - crappy bots don't generate much energy and it's an equalizer to help make it harder for there to be a runaway leader. Looking at the current clan rankings, there's many more clans with substantial amounts of energy than there were clans in bots2 with substantial amounts of clan score (there'd only be ~5-10 clans in bots2 with any decent amount of cs).

All that being said, I've recently shifted my development focus away from the energy system for now. All you have to do is read a thread like this to know it's a contentious issue with lots of opinions, so I came to the conclusion that my time would be better spent building basic bots2 parity features like tournaments (yes, they're coming!) in order to satisfy the greatest number of players.

P.S. I agree that all the numbers thrown around the game can be confusing, especially if you are new and/or don't stay up-to-date on all the changes. This game has always been about numbers, but documentation/help/tooltips could be greatly improved. This is on my list to do soon.

+1

i dont agree with you saying eph makes it harder for the leader to just run away when dumpers add to eph. neps is the perfect example. dumping so hard he idles at over 1k energy gain an hr. eph doesnt help the leader from not running away at all

EPH actually does keep the person at #1 from making the gap larger. The only reason it looks like it's doing it for neps is because he's getting energy from dumping a billion times faster than everyone (basically he isn't human).

1,000 x 24 x 9 = 216,000

I'm just using rough numbers but.. At 1k EPH for 9 days he gets 216k idle energy. He's gained almost 800k energy on his own. It certainly is not the idle energy making that gap.

Sorry, a billion times faster and more efficiently*

maybe when tourneys are introduced, they can also add to the clan's total energy for the month. therefore a clan with a lot of high ranking tourney bots will get a nice boost to their energy score.

how would tourney rankings be involved in the eph calculations or would it be just a general energy reward? also i thought ender wanted to avoid dealing the energy system atm.

I disagree with your saying there are clans with more energy in the top 10, this is just a sign of whats wrong with the game, many of the top 25 clans are just dumper clans, so tbh there is still the same ammount of competition in the game, and the reason being why we are such a small knit community on this game is because of the scoring system, people just dont want to play it.

Reasons as to why the community is small likely has nothing to do with the scoring system. It certainly will effect the longevity of the game and impressions of new players, but right now I'm guessing 80%+ of our players played bots2. It's not a whole lot smaller of a community than it was for bots2 if you subtract the people who were using scripts and not really playing. Not to mention there's no good vote system implemented yet which is probably the main reason we aren't getting many new players. There's not a whole lot of ways for people to even find this game.

The game has always been based on numbers so it will always attract certain, but similar people regardless of the scoring system. I think it's the means we have of gaining players that's hindering us at the moment.

I disagree with your saying there are clans with more energy in the top 10, this is just a sign of whats wrong with the game, many of the top 25 clans are just dumper clans, so tbh there is still the same ammount of competition in the game

Fair point. Maybe rankings with steep dropoffs are better than rankings with gradual dropoffs if those come at the cost of artificial inflation. Gradual dropoffs from real competition would be the ideal scenario.

Not to mention there's no good vote system implemented yet which is probably the main reason we aren't getting many new players. There's not a whole lot of ways for people to even find this game.

A good point. I've been delaying on this because I want to get the game into a more polished state in terms of things like new player experience, documentation, and homepage look. Delaying on this too long could hurt though, so maybe it would be better to just setup the voting now so we can at least try to get some sort of new player stream. I'd dumped a few hundred dollars into an AdWords campaign a few months ago, but it wasn't very effective. Few click-throughs turned into conversions (registrations) and of those, I don't think any players really stuck around.

Anyway, getting off topic from the OP's original point. I guess the takeaway is that I'm here, I'm listening, and I'm always working on improving the game. Stick around and I think you'll enjoy yourself!

Delaying on this too long could hurt though, so maybe it would be better to just setup the voting now so we can at least try to get some sort of new player stream.

This for sure. The way I see it, potential long-term players won't care a whole lot if the game is polished and everything is up to whatever standards you've set for it (which seem to be pretty high to me). I'm pretty much rewording what I mentioned in my last post;

it will always attract certain, but similar people

As for short term players, I don't think fine tunes and other things will make a significant impact in their play-span.

Last but not least, I doubt our current players will leave for long if they do. Whenever you do get around to making your intended changes they're waiting for, I'm sure they'll come running back.

how would tourney rankings be involved in the eph calculations or would it be just a general energy reward

I see it as being an add-on at the end. like 100k extra energy for a 1st place spot or something.

I kind of like the energy for winning tourneys idea. Bots2 would give exp and kudos, but honestly... who wants exp when your build is the best? Although it would make sense to give exp to the highest category. Maybe they could have the option of energy or exp.

I understand Ed! Just a lot of people who I used to play with don't like the new system and no longer play because of that, but I understand that the game is still somewhat a work in process and that it is not an exact copy of bots2 which is also good, like I have mentioned, i'm not a fan of the new system but that doesn't mean i'm gonna stop playing, I enjoy bots but i feel new things are needed but through what you said I now understand that all these will happen in the future!

Thanks for being here and listening Ed! It helps to know that the maker of the game is giving the people what they want :)