complaints

Just thought this might be fun to share, even if Ender/others may not think autoclicking goes on as much as we think it does, this is just an observation of the way bots2 and bots4 handled things differently and its effect on keeping motivated in the energy/cs game.

In bots4, energy is finite, whores, dumpers etc can only give so much per month. When somebody autoclicks or multilogs with others etc., that energy is taken away from others and cannot be returned except by fighting the bot, which is usually not fun to do unless you're an asshole and have lots of time. This has a direct effect on everyone in that range's enjoyment of the game to a degree that they may just quit if there's no whores, or if they have dumpers, just focus on them. Therefore autoclickers can have a direct effect on the enjoyment of the energy game due to sucking up the available energy from everyone else. The only way to prevent this currently is to report them and hope Ender finds something, even if he doesn't believe our calculations sometimes or directly wants the autoclicking script first before they get banned. Therefore the game requires a large time investment from the owner on this part, and when he's not around or doesn't believe people, their hope in the game diminishes greatly.

In bots2, nobody truly cared about autoclickers. They knew they were there, they knew they could not beat them, but because the cs system was infinite, it didn't matter. If I wanted to do 40k cs in a month, I could without anybody's interference really, and if I had the targets available. If floR happened to come on and ban them, great. The effect of autoclickers was there, and they got their #1s, but they did not inhibit the enjoyment of the game to others, unless they really wanted #1.

I should state that if an autoclicker only uses dumpers, it doesn't effect others, but it still gives them undeserved #1s and wins.

The purpose of this thread isn't to bring up the past but to mostly show that infinite resources is somewhat of a good thing if you don't want to do jackshit with your game anymore lol. At this point everything is hardcoded into the game and Ender isn't keen to change anything, so I'll just leave it as a observation that kinda pisses me off.

tl;dr finite resources bad for keeping motivated for non-dumper users due to autoclickers + other stuff, infinite resources good for everyone!

--> I should state that if an autoclicker only uses dumpers, it doesn't effect others, but it still gives them undeserved #1s and wins. (no i dont know how to quote)

somehow it seems to me that you are referring to someone in particular there. Mostly because there is only 1 person who has been using dumpers end ending up high every month(both literal and figurative and no, i dont like the ly's) for the last year orso

i must say that i am quite certain that said person, although an asshole, is not an autoclicker.

so, since its apparently easy enough to get #1s and wins without cheating and therefor without said demotivating effect on others, once again i dunno what you are complaining about.

feel free to complain more tho, empty your heart to us

oh, and free hat ofcourse..

"dead discussion, you will not win, because I will not loose!" For nigga eps, you should say this quote often :P

Ok, first of all El Hefe, <blockquote is how you quote.

Second of all, I was referring to Ville mostly. He used to do that a lot. Whether or not you cheat is not my problem, maybe Ender's, but not mine. Accusations mean nothing on this game anyway, I've learned that. I'm sure you've had lots of bmails sent to Ender about your scoring, and regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, you either just get banned or investigated and very rarely do we ever hear about it anyway.

So no, not everything is about you. It's nice you tried to make it about you and ignore everything I said, but perhaps try harder next time.

The topic is about how autoclickers can mess with a finite resource, regardless of if there are any using any right now. They have in the past and they likely will in the future. People can't help but cheat in games.

so the post was basically about something that happened like, years ago.. sweet..

yes i know there still could/will be autoclickers these days, but like you i dont really care, mostly since i dont feel to need to know how to even find out if anyone does so, besides looking at how long people are online ofc.

not looking at how long other people are online does mean you can score more yourself tho, and beat even the autoclickers (free tip here, donations are welcome ofcourse)

i didnt ignore all the rest you wrote tbh, i didnt even read it.. i get bored with long text easily..

you are wrong about one thing tho.. everything IS about me, i am everywhere.

oh and ofc ty for the quoting tip.. tho ive already forgotten it and will prolly be too lazy to look for this thread again when i want to quote again, ty sweetiepie!

Lmfao!!! Hefe you had me at hello you sexy fuck. As for you Zal, have you ever tried having sex? Or maybe rubbing one out? I mean, aren’t you tired of wet dreams?

I mostly agree that cheating in bots4 can have more significant impact than in bots2 given the finite nature of energy in bots4 vs. the infinite nature of clan score in bots2. I mean, it still really sucks to play against cheaters in either case though. And I don't know that I agree that no one cared about autoclickers in bots2 - I certainly did.

Just to be clear about my intentions because they sometimes get misinterpreted, I ultimately want to make bots4 as fair and as even of a playing field as possible because it sucks playing online games against cheaters. There have been some improvements in the past year in terms of automatic detection which have resulted in a few surprise cheaters being caught, but there's further room for improvement in both detection (i.e. stopping people from cheating) and transparency (i.e. giving legit players a better sense of fairness).

Also, a note on how I handle claims of cheating since it was brought up: It's not so much an unwillingness to believe on my part, but rather more a need to convince myself beyond a reasonable doubt before acting. Automatic (and even manual) detection can only go so far, so the private reports I get from players about suspicious activity are typically useful data points and are frequently (though not always) useful leads for further investigation.

People can't help but cheat in games.

QFT. Online games especially.

oh and ofc ty for the quoting tip.. tho ive already forgotten it and will prolly be too lazy to look for this thread again when i want to quote again

Click "show help" on the thread reply page for a Markdown formatting reminder when you need it. :)

while we are on this subject: are there any stats available for how many times i have been reported? :D

also, since im sure any inspecting of my actions will conclude in me being a legit player, feel free to post your findings about me too :)

that is, if what i just asked is even possible and/or makes any sense at all and omg i just clicked some kine of weird key combination and now my screen colours are off.. sigh.. sometimes i wish i was a gee..computerexpert and could resolve things like this myself..

i was a fan of bots2 and was sad to see it go

i found this game and was happy it returned. after playing awhile and making other accounts i gave up because the game compared to bots2 seems in an unfinished state.

i still log on from time to time to check if the game had come any closer to being finished. it has not. compared to bots2 this version may look the same but the game play is mediocre. energy doesnt make any sense. not as good as the first game.

my question is this. since you agree with what the first guy said then why don't you do anything about it. you say you ultimately want to make the game be fair for all then why dont you fix it so that it is.

you talk a good game but after 6 or 7 years and for as long as i been checking in you promise to do things and you dont

i knew rolf and wonder how he feels about somebody essentially copying and pasting the look of his game. promising to make it better and then doing nothing. all i see is the game degrading in to back and forth bickering on the forum. i seen this time and again over the months that i check in.

i normally don't say anything but the first guys post made me wnt to make my observations. seems to me that the unfinishes state is the problem not auto clickers

im now in college in my junior year at rpi in troy ny studying nuclear engineering. i have friends that know coding that could help you plus some of the professors will give credit to students that work on projects. why dont you try to contact them and get some free help to finish this game. or shut it down because its sad to see a game that i loved as a kid like this

i remember the days when in grade school that i would play botswhen not studying. would be nice to do that again. my names andy good luck.

Oh ffs!

I don't keep any stats about reports from players, so nothing to share there.

As for what I'd said before, I agreed that cheating can have more of an impact in bots4 than in bots2, but I don't think that's necessarily a reason to change game design decisions of bots4. I generally think that focusing on catching/preventing cheating is more worthwhile, hence last year's improvements and locking/resetting of cheaters. There will always be people that prefer bots2 clan score over bots4 energy (and vice versa), this topic was discussed a lot back when it was introduced many years ago. Each has their merits, but changing bots4 to clan score isn't something I'm seriously considering at the moment.

As for the rest of your comments, I know Rolf as well and he gave his blessing for bots4. He even helped with some of the non-public bots2 formulas. And I think I'm uniquely qualified to understand where he was coming from when he decided it was time to move on from bots2 - this can be a tough and thankless job sometimes (but can also be really fun). Regarding the claims of the game being in an unfinished state, no updates, and that I should shut down the game or pass it off to someone else, this is what I can say/offer: This is an ongoing hobby project. It will always be a work in progress to some extent and progress has been slower at certain points, but the 8+ years of updates documented on the announcements pages (1, 2) speak for themselves IMO. I try to maintain a generally ~daily presence on bmails/forums and do my best respond to bugs and issues quickly, keep the game fast and stable and bug-free, etc. In exchange for all this, I only ask that you enjoy this free web game and have fun. For some this is enough, but I understand it's not for all: If it's not enough for you, then you're probably better off finding a different game that offers what you're looking for. I won't shut bots4 down though or pass it off to someone else, sorry.

sweet reply :)

to all the haters, hell, to anyone dumb enough to read all of this: i have enjoyed bots2 for a couple of years and now ive been enjoying bots4 for a year and a half. maybe im a simpleton, maybe im just not a bitch, your choiche..

sure, the game isnt perfect for everyone, nor can any game ever be. its just in our collective nature to bitch about everything.

in my not so humble opinion, the changes between b2 and b4 arent that big. sure, the clan score is now based on energy instead of, well basically, wins, but is that so much of a difference? you either score or you dont. as long as scoring is equal for everyone, who the fuck (excuser mon francais; OT: fecher la vache!) cares what or how you score?

personally, i dont really like scoring energy, but hey, neither did i like scoring clanscore in b2, so whaddabiggiethere?

does b4 cheating have more influence on the game than on b2? maybe, but like i said in a previous post.. personally i dont see too much effect of cheating, not these days anyway.. since its not too difficult to win things without cheating i can only say: boohoo too bad for you that cheating once won the game, but i dont see cheating winning the game at this time..

tbh i dont hear much complaining about the work ender is doing.. anyone that liked playing b2 once, should actually be thankful to ender for having created b4.. basically, we have our game back.. and where as we spend most of our time bitching on everything, ender did a lot of work, in my opinion a hellofalotofwork for a minimum amount of payoff, to let us be bliss and playing again..

if you want a better game, without cheating and with updates being done before anyone can even complain, please be my guest and build that game yourself.. im sure you'd get lots of happy players and i might even join myself (ill try not to bitch and moan every time i play). until then: i suggest we all thank ender for the low payoff job he is doing and enjoy 'our game'.

to close this and fetch me another beer ill repeat ender:

If it's not for you, then you're probably better off finding a different game that offers what you're looking for.

--> thats prolly gonna fail, right? :'D (the failing ofc both meaning me quoting and them bitches be leaving)

Started from the bottom now we're here :) h5 Ender!

thanks for explaining that and thanks for your hard work and dedication to keeping the game going. much appreciated.

I think we all know certain players will never enjoy the game again, and at this point I just wish they'd commit to that and let others enjoy it. I've never understood this "I hate the game, so I must make sure everyone else does, while simultaneously never leaving the game" attitude some people have.

The game survives through everything surprisingly - there's no logical reason a text based game should succeed in 2019, so growing is always going to be hard, but it's doing well to keep a steady amount of players this long. We should remember its a free game built as a hobby, not something you're actively paying for that you're allowed to demand dev time towards things you want changed. If you have ideas for a better game, go find or create it and let people enjoy this one.

As for cheating, it's hard to completely combat many people trying to break the rules when you're just one part-time developer, but action will be taken if you report players that're cheating and help build a case against them. I know as I've reported quite a few cheaters that got banned, including some high profile ones.

Thanks Ender o/

A big thankyou from me Ender

Hey, thanks everyone - I really appreciate the comments. :) At the end of the day, I think it's cool to have something that people care about enough to get frustrated with. It would be worse to spend a lot of time and energy building something, only to have it go completely and unnoticed and fade into oblivion.

I want to be clear too though that I appreciate and am open to all feedback, including critical. Accepting critical feedback is always a fine balance that requires patience - useful feedback is often critical (though to be fair, not all critical feedback is useful). I understand where people are coming from when they've invested their time and energy into the game want, for example, more frequent updates. I'll do my best to deliver on what people want, but will also try to be clear in setting expectations on what I won't deliver. This will likely always be a hobby project, but I'll do my best to keep it fast, stable, bug-free, and to be present and update it as time and motivation allows.

Thanks Ed!