complaints

My turn to complain about something!

I see sentiments like this get tossed around every now and then on the forums:

Ender finds out someone is auto clicking and he takes a massive break from the game. Wouldn't suprised me if he is in it with everyone else and accepts auto clicking as long as you pay him money!

Thing is, Ender still getting stable income from the game, because there are lots of players who buying stars from him. So he doesnt need to do anything with a game. As long as he getting peoples money, he doesnt need to update game or do anything at all.

Ender tries to keep the whales (aka the people with money that want to make level 300 bots with 0 losses and 2 trains) around to pay the server costs rather than cater to the cheap crowd.

These comments tend to ruffle my feathers a bit because I feel I've always dealt with this game in a fair and honest way, if nothing else. I know updates don't come as fast as some like, but I try to at least be around as much as I can and be as open and straightforward as possible.

To that end, here are some facts to combat this:

• This game costs exactly $25 a month to keep online. I could probably do it for even less if I really wanted to.

• Year-to-date, after PayPal fees, the game has brought in $2,657.61. After taxes, that will probably be something like $1,500, if that.

• I live and work in New York City. The cost of living here is quite high - $1,500 does not cover even half my rent for one month.

• I won't get into specifics about what I bring home from my "real" job, but it's adjusted for the higher cost of living in NYC - I can assure you it's more than enough to cover my rent and then some. In short, it completely dwarfs what the game brings in.

I hope I've sufficiently demonstrated that the idea of me somehow corrupting the game to line my own pocket is laughable. The next time you see someone trotting out one these tired statements I quoted above, please educate them by linking them to this thread.

Relax Ender, there are always ppl who complaits about everything and bitchin everything. Those are frustrated lillte punks who dont know anything about real life.

*slips wiggin a tenner

boost ActiveX 100 levels please sweetie ;)

Yay Leader2! YOU AND ME FOREVER RAGING AGAINST DA MACHINE!

I'll only speak to my comment on there, the whale one. Here's my reasoning:

1) Generally speaking, people like Benny and Rivan have donated the most I would think, thus making them whales in comparison to the rest of us.

2) Due to that amount of stars and money behind them and maybe just the people they know, they can make ridiculous builds like a level 300 bot with 1000 int and 80 str/60 dex/100 con (see here) because of the even more broken system of ratio whoring we have (I simply remember bots2 having the 1/3 str rule etc. which made it at least so that I couldn't attack a level 300 that does 0 damage and level myself up in 4 days). A regular user would not be able to accomplish this unless he got lucky or tried very hard. It's not that I don't think they deserve it to a degree, but the ease of it disturbs me a little. Remember how long it took you to get to level 300 on bots2 Ender? Did it take 4 days? I don't think so.

3) Buffs can essentially be bought even though there's a daily limit on them. The All-Star trophy is proof of this even though I'm not 100% sure if people use it more for buffs or trophy points really.

4) I was speaking about dumpers when I originally said this so here's some context: http://bots4.net/forum/1/6619 I was mostly talking about how lower level players go idle and leave while those that are more invested in the game stay. I guess because everyone wants a essay around here to explain what they're saying so the 2 new players playing the game don't get confused, I had to write this now :P

So my focus was not misinformation. It was just laziness that I didn't write a 5 paragraph essay like you and Fishwick wanted. Well now that's it's done, I demand a grading of my paper Professor. Also, I give you negative 10 points on your paper Ender as you did not properly source your quotations.

ive paid more money to other players than i have to ender and i doubt im alone in that category

Maybe deal with those whiners like floR sometimes did; he had no problem refunding/refusing donations and delete their accounts.

Why are you wearing feathers btw? You're in a Village People tribute band?

Maybe deal with those whiners like floR sometimes did; he had no problem refunding/refusing donations and delete their accounts.

Well I never donated so need for the first part. I also never donated to floR. One time I thought about buying $100 worth of bots off asian lover, thank god I didn't.

He could delete all my accounts if he wants. I'm a Canadian, I'd even say thank you if he did.

Well it´s nice that you think getting to that high lvl is "easy". And even though it says it only took me 4 days to do it, the reality of it is more like 11 months (might be less, but pretty much).

As for the subject of dumper I´ll say this: they´re nice to have sure, but completely useless if you don´t have the time to use them :P

11 months, 4 days, still way lower than anybody that got level 300 on bots2 lol. I'm probably the only one out there that thought your accomplishment was less of an accomplish in perseverance terms and more of a "lol this system is so broken I can make this really silly bot build now to get an achievement nobody else has". I mean I made a level 150 snowman axe bot in bots2 with over 200 or something int and I thought that was silly even.

It was more of a saying towards why are you able to do it rather than why you did it. You did it because you could.

As for dumpers, there's tons of unused level 100 dumpers. Like, way too many. More than anybody could ever use. Even if you took out all the other dumpers in the game, there would still be too many of them lol.

Lol zal, if anyone achieves anything in this game that is slightly notable you seem to always think it was gained unfairly or by cheating, stop moaning... you can buy in-game benefits with cash on just about any game online.

^Who are you again?^

I know not everything is done unfairly or by cheating. I don't blame people for finding flaws in the game. I play fairly so it's not that crazy to wish others do. And yes, you can buy benefits in plenty of other games. Ender could whore the shit out of this game and a few people would probably eat it all up. But my focus has always been to try and make things fairer for new players and help them. My focus on that point has been lost though. This all started because an old bots2 player figured out how broken this new game is and none of you want to fucking do a thing about it. So I took up his/her charge and annoyed a few people.

Status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on, status quo, continue on.

Zal for president!

Going off topic, butt fuck it.

an old bots2 player figured out how broken this new game is and none of you want to fucking do a thing about it.

What would you propose is done?

Let's get rid of dumpers. It's unfair to new players. Now watch as the best players in game make amazing lowbie builds and soak up all energy available, and new guys are actively raped until they figure out how to make a perfect freaked war club/blackrazor/equalizer bot.

Ratio whores are pretty unfair, let's get rid of them too. Now everyone needs to spend 1000 hours training against the same AI bots, what a fun and interactive game. As someone who's used ratio whores a lot and built several sets, they're awesome. But they take work to build and give people something to aim for.

I'm all for helping new players, but you can't just say anything that experienced players do is wrong and unfair. In WoW, it takes months to hit the level cap, and then months to gear up to have a decent chance at raids/PvP arena. There is helping new people and being fair, but there is also not giving any experienced player a reason to put time in and strive to be the best.

A key point I think you overlooked too, is buffs. Benny would not have hit level 300 so quickly without them, you can't compare directly to bots2 leveling speeds without mentioning something that increases leveling speed by up to 500%.

Any type of real wars situation will scare literally every new player off instantly. The clan race would pretty much become 'who can take advantage of the free energy from noobs first'. Low level scoring is ridiculously easy at the minute with all the whores around. Just check the HoF, only a few use purely dumpers.

I started the game as a relative noob in august 2012, and came 3rd/3rd/2nd in the clan race the following 3 months, entirely on my own with no ratio whores, dumpers or buying any stars. Pothead got 4th in the individual race in his first scoring month and 1st two months later. He didn't have any unfair advantages, he just put a fuckload of time in.

Tl;dr: game is friendlier to new people than you think. It does have its flaws, but we can't get rid of every thing to aim for in the game, you communist!

I came 3rd 2nd and 1st in my first 3 months fish :P which i guess is evidence that new players(with a bit of hard work) can compete with the best players from the start.

Cant really add to what fishwick has said, the game is only broken in yours and a couple others eyes, I dont see many of the active players who click links ever complaining. In my eyes the game is vastly improved and made a bit more diverse which is vital in such a repetetive and simple game.

ACtually it doesnt take long to hit levelcap on wow anymore. people have been maxing out ina bout a week or so and the game basically makes it easy to get gear now. Part of why I left. Just tossing that out there.

Fish's 8 paragraphs or so

Apparently all of a sudden I'm a supporter of the abolition of the game and all it's features? I've given plenty of suggestions in the forums and every single time you have found a flaw with them for some reason or another. Maybe it's you that has a problem with progress. That's why I stopped suggesting anything, because you and others just smack down all the ideas and want to stay in your rut and die.

You should also really stop using Pothead in your examples. You were the one that was trying to rape the shit out of him. Then you praise him as the second coming of Neps. Nos left Eternal because the little cunt was let into Eternal. I didn't even think it was possible to piss off Nos.

Pothead, you and Fish can go fuck each other in your sexy ruts and die. If there was an ignore feature on this game I would've done it to both of you years ago. But that's another feature that will never be implemented. If you want anything done on this game you have to force it.

Now where's that delete bot function, oh ya, we don't have that either. I mean sure, it has good reason not to exist, but it was the ultimate rage quit option :(

I liked the WoW stuff. It was funny.

Oh, my bad. I thought you wanted discussion, not to throw a hissy fit because someone has an opinion different to your own. Just leave already if you get this wound up over a game.

^calls me a communist and thinks I wants most of the game features to die out of nowhere then says I'm the immature one^

I was being immature because you were being immature. How am I supposed to respond to accusations of me wanting dumpers and ratio whores all to die when I didn't even say that. I said make ratio whores harder like in the bots2 days. Nothing can really be done for dumpers. I throw ideas around saying things like there could be a smaller level range but on second thought that wouldn't be that effective since people would just use broken weapons to attack their bot even if it was 2 levels ahead of them. Maybe if we combined idea 1 and 2 then the use of dumpers would be minimal. I say that things like camping is stupid and a waste of time and people are like, "if you got everything you wanted in a game without spending time on it it wouldn't be worth it". I give a couple of suggestions to help Ender figure out what to do with low levels and I doubt they'll ever be implemented. I give an idea about auto-assigning points and people think it'd take the challenge away from the game.

I thought it'd be fun to compile a list of accomplishments (that I could find) of Fish's while I'm at it:

List of Fish's accomplishments:

http://bots4.net/forum/4/4438

http://bots4.net/forum/4/5206

Oh my, do you want a cup of Metamucil old timer? Maybe if I focused on these types of suggestions I'd be a moderator by now! But then what fun would that be as I'm the only one who talks on these forums! I'd just be a moderator moderating myself! OH GOD THIS JUST GOT CRAZY I NEED TO CALM IT DOWN.

Now back on topic finally: City Council has approved a new bylaw stating that all stop signs must be 5 feet 2 inches tall and the signs must be red in color with white letters saying Stop on it. The dimensions of the stop sign must be 10 inches wide by 10 inches high in an octagon shape with 3 inch sides for all 8 sides. This motion has been suggested by Councillor Fishwick, seconded by chairman Ender, and was unanimously approved. Within the week the bylaw will take effect. It is with this new bylaw that City Council hopes that nobody gives a shit that the sign posts are now 2 inches shorter and will save the City $200 per year.

^example of how boring this shit is^

Now, in the most epic way possible of eliminating our whatever-friendship we did have Fishwick, I give you this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQK6t2Esng

I can´t help it, but all I can think of when I read your posts Zal are:

• "Dumpers are to OP nerf"

• "Ratiowhores are to OP nerf

• Whaaaaaa

(I like to apologize in advance. My brain must be damaged from reading other forums.)

Hindering or making things more difficult for older players is not the way to help new ones.

If you can't handle other peoples opinions and critique on your own opinions, keep them to yourself, Zal. The way you're acting is pathetic, all Fish did was exclaim previously suggested changes people whined about and why they'd be shitty.

^calls me a communist and thinks I wants most of the game features to die out of nowhere then says I'm the immature one^

The communist comment was obviously a joke...

Shut the fuck up bot stealer Gpof. You aren't worthy of attention the same as Alan or Ville are on this game. Not that I personally hate either of them. But I do hate you.

And it's ok Jans :) I don't think either are OP. I'd rather have harder ratio whores. As for dumpers, I just think they're silly. Making a level 100 answerer to attack a level 133 freaked blaster maul bot for no xp or armor damage on the blaster bot. I like variety in a game, but it's a fairly monochrome (of one color) kinda way to play. When more people were playing it was pretty much the only strategy to play. But as Ender said in a different forum post, the amount of people has dropped off substantially. So the people that are playing can easily find whores or they just slog on fighting old dumpers. Hell if I had my old whores there would be more energy than anyone could handle.

Im still contributing whores but i See im only one who cares about it :/

Avoiding the subject at hand to resort to name calling, typical.

And it's ok Jans :) I don't think either are OP.

That was Benny though? We're both tall and handsome, easy to confuse us. Benny is the one in hot pants and roller skates.

I thank you for your contributions fifty :) I used to think I was fairly alone too.

To be honest Gpof, you and Fishwick and a couple others demand too much out of people's explanations. I'm not going to write a damn book about this game. I already wrote something like 10 paragraphs about what I think and I'm not going to sit here and argue forever. Hindering higher level or higher skilled players in an online game to help lower level or lower skilled players is not uncommon. Diablo 2 said "here, have 5 classes and have a hell of a hard time beating Diablo because you need to find some good rare items first". Then they came out with Diablo 2's expansion and were "nevermind what we said before, we added tons of easily found unique and set items that will kick Diablo's ass. Also, here's Baal that you can use in conjunction with Diablo to get to level 99 easier. Plus the 2 new classes are OP."

Did people still play original Diablo 2? Yes. But a lot more switched to its expansion. What they did was make it easier for everyone to level, gain items and kill bosses etc. Some like the challenge of original Diablo 2 to this day though. I'm in the camp of people who like the original Diablo 2 more but like the item variety of LoD. My tastes are similar on this game. I went from actively trying to play and try my hardest in Diablo 2 to find even one useful item to the almost boring end-game of LoD (before those key thingies) where you just sat and let a bot go to Baal and kill everything while you gain xp simply because you could and it was the safest/easiest way to get to 99, just like ratio whores and dumpers are the safest route in levels/energy. All the expansion did was take the higher honor of reaching level 99 in original Diablo 2 and lowered the standard, much like super easy ratio whores/dumpers have done to the levels/energy sectors.

I only make this comparison because this game and bots2 were based off Diablo 2. It only makes sense that they would suffer the same fate. Shells of their former selves due to lack of players/lack of exposure since they are multiplayer games. That is what my rant was mostly about. It was to do with Gesstastic's is this true? topic. I wrote all this because the words "not fighting myself if i wanted to do that i would do just fine without bots4 lol" inspired me to. This signaled to me that a fairly new player figured out the silliness of dumpers etc. Dumpers came out of the fact that people thought it would be even more silly to fight each other when they could take the easier route. Well real wars have failed as far as I'm concerned. And that's a good thing, because if you think of it, it shows that we love each other too much to fight each other (with a few exceptions). Bots4 is like the Canada of text based games :)

My hate is real though, it just came out a little strong because I knew you and Fishwick would flock to this topic like bees to flowers to defend the game or Ender. Ender can take care of himself, he's a big boy :)

Also, if anything comes out of this topic, it should be that rose gets her 100 levels for $10 :P

tl;dr Diablo 2 is fun.

That was Benny though? We're both tall and handsome, easy to confuse us. Benny is the one in hot pants and roller skates.

I'm guessing this is Benny and this is you then?

Zal you have made me want to play d2 now

Does clicking both links in zals last post make me gay?

considering you're already gay it doesn't really matter

Hey, I'm not the one that bends over infront of men all day. :P

I'm not asking you to write a novel on it, or to even explain yourself at all. I doubt there's a combination of words to make me agree with you, I'm simply expressing my opinion on it as you are. Hypothetically speaking, if Ender were to consider a suggestion, he can also consider peoples opinions on the matter at the same time. People disagreeing isn't a personal assault to you, which is what you seem to think according to your responses in my eyes.

lol@anyone wasting their time replying to JudeZal

Maybe deal with those whiners like floR sometimes did; he had no problem refunding/refusing donations and delete their accounts.

I like this idea. A lot. :)