miscellaneous

Atleast Lusitania won something this month :)

I checked and Apex won tournament since June 2022, finally someone beat them at something. Monthly competition is harder though :P

Shame you had to do it by leveling others tourneys last minute, but gratz I guess!

"All's fair in love and war." - I don't know where I heard that. I don't even believe it. Still, grats!

30 and 40 cats didn't decide the win regardless, Apex could have won all 30/40's and still lost

And I was the one who did that, in response to you levelling Bazza with like 30 minutes to go

Our average points per bot was better! I didn't win a single category this time around though, lame month :(

I don't see any Lusitania bot at lvl 30, you've got almost all of the possible points there and we still won. Both clans leveled each other lvl 30 and 40 tourneys. And you did it to some just because "it's Bazza", not in retaliation against something we did.

The fox that didn't get to the grapes, said that they were sour. (or something... goes for both sides)

I'd like to say, grats PeeT and Myriad! :))

so to be very clear and transparent since Fish admitted he retaliated due to zac lvlin bazza or wtv well now any bot that was under lets say lvl 80 in lusa that participated in tourney will be levelled by me only fair i return the favor now

I don't like bazza so it was just a personal attack between the two like I have been doing most of the month, then you decided to attack Oldtime LOL makes sense but it's all good I guess all is fair now :)

Sure you can do that and kinda ruin any future tournaments for both sides, as no doubt there would be further retaliation in kind

Or you can accept your own clan member caused trouble for your own clan and didn't like getting hit back. To be clear, if Pothead didn't do that, there would have been 0 last minute levelling.

I'm sure you can find other ways to fall out with bazza if you hate him that much without needing to start this

Sounds like a Hatfield and McCoy battle...

Somehow I dont think you can retaliate in kind like we can, you have spread it to people who weren't involved in mine and bazzas feud, so it's your actions that will have consequences on your own clanmates lol.

See?

My decision to found Lusitania is achieving it's goal: boost competition.

Sure there's more drama now, people get pissed off but atleast there is some sort of competition and makes the game much more interesting.

Btw, I decided a long time ago I wouldn't do any dirty action, like onlining or leveling tourneys. Despite my tourneys getting leveled, I won't retaliate. That's not my way of playing bots. I prefer to do new tourneys :)

"Yours and bazzas feud" sounds suspiciously like "I get to hit other clans whenever I want to and everyone has to ignore it because I said so"

Lets be honest the real saltiness is just from losing the tournament (which the levelling played no part in). If you won while having levelled first and subsequently been levelled, you'd probably be much less upset

"Yours and bazzas feud" sounds suspiciously like "I get to hit other clans whenever I want to and everyone has to ignore it because I said so"

What? I'm sorry it sounds absolutely nothing like that lmao, have I attacked anyone else in Lusitania?

Lets be honest the real saltiness is just from losing the tournament (which the levelling played no part in). If you won while having levelled first and subsequently been levelled, you'd probably be much less upset

I'm not upset about losing the tourney just the way it was done, I didn't expect to win the tourney as I already said we are lacking in a few cats also I dont expect to win everything all the time anyway that's not realistic, we just try to.

If you look back on our history we have won plenty of both and certainly aren't desperate for a win or bothered by a loss I don't need to be winning to enjoy the game.

I'm not upset about losing the tourney just the way it was done

"the way it was done" is you levelling Lusitania bots, they do the same in reverse. Nothing out of the norm there.

If you aren't that bothered then it's cool. Can just be a matter of equal retaliation for stuff you initiated and it's all forgotten now. Doesn't need to be some extended feud that just stops low level tournies being fun for anyone

I find it a bit ironic that workshopped bots that can't really be played on (without resetting) are what gets the trophy points which only get utilized when playing on the bot, and no regular scorer has any hope of winning with all these tourny bot entrants. The only real/tangible stakes are the 195-360 trophy points for levelers in cat 1 lol

"the way it was done" is you levelling Lusitania bots, they do the same in reverse. Nothing out of the norm there.

That is not the way it was done though, I leveled one of bazzas bots left all the others alone and logged off, you then decided to to level 5 of OT's 40s who again has no part in our feud and escalate it majorly not to mention you guys have been leveling our tourneys for a while and we keep rebuilding them.

It won't be forgotten and it will now be an extended feud unfortunately.

You two are adorable.

Lol people crying because their tourney bots were leveled

Let me just say out loud what everyone is already thinking. Pothead you’re a piece of shit. OT you are a fucking low life fat ass living in your mothers basement and gpof you are a bipolar dirty cunt sucking asshole.

Luthrin out.

Luth we've missed you in chat.

I'm not bipolar in the slightest but the rest is fair enough.

I also miss you in chat Luth

Zach: Levels someones tourney bot in Lusitania
Zach: Shocked pikachu when it happens back to his clan

You won't be shocked to know I have leveled almost 50 of your clans tourneys then will you, and more to come!

Also reminds me of the time you attacked my bot so I attacked yours back and you came into chat crying like a little girl.

Yeah, I was the one crying.

Zach01 [374]

2024-01-10 20:15:22
[16 days ago]

Just to let you know not to take it personally with the attacks, that's just my way way of sending a strong message not to mess with my stuff on here whether its you attacking my dumpers etc too I don't know.

I have stopped now but if you carry on it won't bother me and I will just do back ten fold to you and your clan whether its leveling the clans tourney bots, draining the weaker noob bots in there hours of onlining or whatever.

I will also notify esv that his tourneys are potentially at risk if you continue.

This is a genuinely friendly warning just to stop.

Ah the good old share a bmail attack, I feel so utterly abused.

I have stopped now but if you carry on it won't bother me and I will just do back ten fold

That is me literally telling you I'm not bothered/crying and telling you in a friendly manner it's not worth it.

Yeah, sending multiple messages sure shows you don't care, haha.

Bruh, this was 4 days too late. Time to move on.

I'm not the one who brought it up, tell your buddy.

Even with all our low level tourneys leveled, Lusitania got 2 in a row \o/

Don't want to discredit your hard work (I know you guys built some of your own), but something tells me a huge portion of the credit for this is due to Myriad. :P Your bot count went from 31 to 238 to 235 when he moved over, Apex went from ~240, to 148, to 176 to 170 during the same time frame.

the fact is yes they won but the the win comes from buying aldis and kevs old tourneys thats the diff in bot count and signing them all up

Clearly a bait comment looking for drama but even so nobody really cares, buying the tourney is hardly something to brag about. Apex won it plenty of times with bots they actually built themselves and I don't remember any of our members shouting about it in the forum not to mention the clan races which can't be bought.

I don't understand why you say the obvious. Of course, we won both editions because Myriad bought Aldin and Kevin's tournaments and decided to join Lusitania when I created the clan. And? I don't see that as a reason not to congratulate your opponent and motivate yourself to beat us. Now that you finally have competition in something, are you complaining about Myriad dominating the tournament? On that note, should I complain about Apex dominating the energy race because Zach can play all day and we don't have a player who can do the same? In the case I could convince Zach to join us, would your argument be similar? Don't you think that convincing a key player to join your clan has enough value to deserve victory?

Myriad put money into the game (I think tourneys is the only thing I really saw him buying), but Apex members also put money into the game at some point, they didn't build everything they own, although I know they built almost everything.

Do you think we don't deserve to win the tournament because we didn't put enough effort into building all those tourneys? Well, the good thing about tourneys is that once they are done, you don't need to waste any more time on them, except at the low levels where it seems like you need to constantly rebuild. So, tourney bots are really valuable and Myriad made a really smart investment, and Lusitania is profiting from that.

Can’t clan races be bought? If I offered you Zach 5k$ to ensure us a win, wouldn't you do it? I know you mean that even if you buy dumpers, you need to make the effort to dump the energy. That's why the energy race is still a little out of our reach, but we are preparing for it.

It wasn't a post to incite drama. It was a celebration of our victory. In sport, when your opponent celebrates, you just congratulate him and train harder. If you don't care about tourney, stop enrolling your bots and let us win forever :D

If I saw you on chat at the time I would probably congratulate you just seems a bit strange you take to the public forum instead of clan forum to celebrate but oh well, I'm not motivated to beat you I don't care all that much and if I did I would have started building them after I leveled yours in retaliation last month.

I'm not being paid to score for Apex so that's not really relevant and I haven't been around much at all in the last 2 years since we created it so I'm only a small part of the dominance, I also don't have all day to play.

If you paid me 5k to help you win I would bite your hand off that still doesnt mean you would actually win or be favourite every month to win like it would with the tourney when you buy bots which is why I brought it up being so pay to win in the tourney leveling suggestion thread, it's more just another huge flaw in the tourney that you can buy and hoard tourney bots.

Regardless of whether you paid someone for tourney bots or paid them to score for you for a certain amount of time, you could argue that neither is commendable. But I don't see what is so admirable about someone who no life's the game and scores millions per month or builds hundreds of tourney bots in their own time either. Let's just all agree that we're all losers for playing this game so long and leave it at that :p

Righteous!

Winners win and losers make up reasons they should have won.

I think taking the time to win the tourney by building the bots is much more commendable than buying them and it wouldn't need no lifing to do so just consistency but hey I don't blame you it's a smart investment long term since even if it's only 90 extra tourney points a month it adds up, imo it's just another bad thing about the tourneys design.

Haven't seen anyone really no life the game in a while you could argue eps did but even he managed to score close to 3 mil every month whilst working and living a normal life and 75% of the time I just click train on the side of other stuff without putting much thought into actually playing, if people do what they enjoy I would call that being a winner personally.

trophy points*

Congrats on the win Esv

Thank you gr33n.

I agree with Zach that it's a tournament design problem that you can just buy a bunch of bots and dominate it, but that's how it works and a lot of suggestions have been made to try to improve this. However, I feel like there isn't a solution that is unanimously considered the best to improve tournaments.

From what I remember, someone proposed something like limiting the number of participants per clan or taking into account the date of entry of the bot into the clan. Something along these lines could perhaps help improve the tournaments.

Tournaments to me seem more like a raffle ticket than an actual contest. If you build 20 bots with the same build and another person makes 40 with the same build, then it's mostly up to luck who wins, but by having 40 bots you have more chance of winning overall. Similar to the idea of buying 40 raffle tickets will give you an advantage over the person with 20 since there is limited entries overall.

Generally speaking though the tournament isn't the main idea of the game as more of a side project that some people have gotten -really- into over time. It does need work though to increase the randomness of the winners rather than "having the most bots with the same build wins". Myriad had an idea of randomizing the levels per month, that'd be an interesting idea overall but since the same bots get put in every month it would likely just push people to make more bots in different level ranges. Most of the better ideas would likely take up way too much time to do though (like a complete revamp) and probably have to include new systems. The randomized idea would at least be simpler to do than others that have been suggested.

One random idea that just popped into my mind is a "regular bot tournament" that'd be separate from the freaked one. All bots would have to have the same stats as their weapons/armors and it'd be more of a neat way of testing out what the best normal bots are. But it's just a silly idea :)

This thread kind of spiraled out of control. My initial comment (which was then hijacked and turned into an argument) was simply highlighting the power of Myriad in the tournament (and it wasn't meant as negative, though it was clearly taken as such).

Regardless of whether you paid someone for tourney bots or paid them to score for you for a certain amount of time, you could argue that neither is commendable. But I don't see what is so admirable about someone who no life's the game and scores millions per month or builds hundreds of tourney bots in their own time either. Let's just all agree that we're all losers for playing this game so long and leave it at that :p

I would say that commendable isn't an argument to be made in a game. You either win or lose, and how you get that (outside of cheating) I would say is fair. So, paying for it or doing it yourself, either way you win.

However, I disagree with the statement "no life" as if playing games somehow translates into not having a life, or if playing games is not a life. Hobbies, regardless of what they are, are part of life. So, if I (or others) play this (or other video games for that matter) as part of their lives, it's no different than someone who sits down and drinks and watches a football game or jumps on a dirt bike and rides a trail or goes out for a walk. This is a "to each their own" statement and really, to each their own.

And yes, at the end of the day, congrats.

Didn't mean to cause any offense with the term 'no life'. All I was trying to say is that just because you spent more time playing the game doesn't necessarily make you a better player, or somehow make your wins more meaningful. In many ways, this game is a lot like Diablo 3, where you grind paragon which gives a small stat boost every level. Eventually the players that get the best positions on the leaderboard are just players who have got the highest paragon and therefore those who have played the game longest. That doesn't mean they're necessarily the most skilled or knowledgeable players, they're just those that have got the most time on their hands, and generally are skewed towards those who have either got no job or 'no life'.

Bots is maybe slightly different because you can play while you do other things, but regardless lets not underestimate the time it takes to score millions per month or build dozens of tourney bots. It takes hundreds of hours to do that which is more than what most people would invest into a single game these days. Kudos to those who find that stuff stimulating or fun, but for me its a mindless tedious grind and I already have a full time job that takes up enough of my time as it is.

Hobbies are cool, but, even what can be considered healthy hobbies can break through the cusp into unhealthy patterns/routines.

Certainly, having a job or what one would consider a "normal" life would limit the amount of time spent doing hobbies - as it should. Because a normal healthy life is not JUST a hobby, Unless you are rich of course.

If you are spending 12 hours a day doing any one thing and you are doing it day in and day out, forgive me, but you are a "no life" in my books. Don't get me wrong there are periods where I have had "no life" but we need to call a spade a spade here.

It's unhealthy and not recommended in all known literature to spend every day 12 hours a day playing Bots4. lol

If you are spending 12 hours a day doing any one thing and you are doing it day in and day out, forgive me, but you are a "no life" in my books. Don't get me wrong there are periods where I have had "no life" but we need to call a spade a spade here.

I would still say you are incorrect Luthrin, as you describing a person doing the same thing, 12 hours a day, every day as a no life yet that is exactly what a person that has a typical job does (granted it's usually 8 hours a day). To condescend someone's daily activities simply because it doesn't fit the construct of what society deems "normal" in my opinion is asinine. You can surely dictate what is a life or no life, in your opinion, but to state it as matter of fact is ignorance.

Didn't mean to cause any offense with the term 'no life'. All I was trying to say is that just because you spent more time playing the game doesn't necessarily make you a better player, or somehow make your wins more meaningful. In many ways, this game is a lot like Diablo 3, where you grind paragon which gives a small stat boost every level. Eventually the players that get the best positions on the leaderboard are just players who have got the highest paragon and therefore those who have played the game longest. That doesn't mean they're necessarily the most skilled or knowledgeable players, they're just those that have got the most time on their hands, and generally are skewed towards those who have either got no job or 'no life'.

You didn't offend me, more so just irritated with the overall standard of someone spending a significant amount of time doing something they enjoy as a "no life" simply because it's generally relating to playing video games but when someone spends - for example an entire year boating around the world, or taking a year to travel the world - they are "enjoying life".

That said I do understand your point of view as this game is merely dominated by the people that have more time to spend playing it (as typical with most things in life, not just video games). I also dislike people using that as an excuse to as why they lose. Which is not what I was attempting to do with my initial post.

Nice Strawman, Nos. It is or at least should be well understood that I was not talking about people making a living working 12 hours a day. The contention arrives with the word "hobby" of course some may argue that their work is their hobby - the matter of fact - this is not the case for the overwhelming majority of people that HAVE to work in order to survive or at the very least live a dignified life.

I will reiterate. Hobbies are great, doing things that bring joy or calm in your life is great. However, everything and I mean everything (hobbies included) are subject to moderation.

I agree, some societal norms are nonsense and shouldn't act as a default for how we as individuals live our lives. However you and me are but a small very tiny part of that society, and Society or Civility exists for a reason greater than yourselves. A greater reason that sometimes requires self sacrifice. Like getting a fucking job and paying taxes rather than sitting on your ass all day drinking ensures because getting the next super axe in diablo, "brings you joy"

A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.

Not sure you understand what it actually is so I defined it for you. But no, I didn't use it. I simply refuted your argument of society norms while using your illustration of "normal". And I still disagree with you stating comments like they are fact, because they are not, they are simply your opinion (as these are mine).

Also, I will reiterate your definition of what someone should do in a society is that; yours. Not hard-set in stone of what people should do. Some rich and wealthy people do not work for a living. They live, and (in some cases skirt paying taxes by using loopholes in tax breaks) and thus don't follow - what I can only assume is - your preconceived notion of contributing to society is.

I will reiterate. Hobbies are great, doing things that bring joy or calm in your life is great. However, everything and I mean everything (hobbies included) are subject to moderation.

Again, this is YOUR opinion, which you seem to think is factual simply because it's stated by several people. Which is actually a fallacy people make and it's called ipse dixit.

Look, Nos. It is not my opinion that if you eat too much junk food, you'll get fat, this statement is a universal fact. A fact so commonly agreed upon it is considered strict common sense. However one can still argue it is a fallacy or an opinion because some peoples metabolisms are so fast that they burn extra calories at a faster rate thus don't get fat. still the initial statement stands intact.

I see society's current direction gives way for people to refute common sense. Like whether there are more than two genders outside of Boys and Girls. This is especially prevalent in the United States of America and here in Canada. Stating that everything is subject to moderation is a commonly understood phrase, it's not an opinion if nearly every single human on earth agrees with it.

-Luthrin

Without hard actual, proven data to back up a statement, then yes, regardless of how many people believe it, it is still - in fact - an opinion and holds no weight.

The number of people that agree with something, regardless of what it is, doesn't make it factual. It just makes it agreed upon by several people. Religion would fit into this, as would gender, and race. It's simply labels that we created as humans to organize things into neat little boxes. Not everything goes into a box, and society doesn't get to dictate what is fact or opinion simply because it's something voted on by the majority.

Sorry if this hurts your brain Luth.

Ahh the punch line at the end says it all. I would have never pegged you, an intellectual - to resort to ad hominems

Common sense stands alone, Nos. In order to act as a functional cohesive society we must find a common thread. Putting things into a box makes them easier to move around - Common sense. Your argument does in fact hurt my brain as it is so far removed from society and the standards in which gave way to our current human evolution.

good luck

Luth, if you're going to continue using fallacy as your defense, please use them accurately. I didn't resort to attacking your character. Me saying what I said was clearly taken as I meant it based on the rest of your post however, I didn't call your brain anything. I said it must hurt, because my opinion doesn't match yours, same as mine is hurting trying to explain to you that not everyone agrees with the society norm and want someone different than what is currently the status quo.

That stated, I will cease commenting because we've obviously desired this thread enough. If you want to continue discussing this, then meet me in chat or move to email.

You are right, I did react to your comment is a manner that wasn't your intention. In my defense though, the "sorry" at the beginning did add a hint of condescension. Forgive me for my mis understanding.

I'd love to continue the conversation/debate. I'll be in chat soon to do some shopping. I'm afraid getting into it with you will pull all my attention away from leveling. See you in a few.