suggestions

Ender, obviously it’s been well over a decade since you released Bots4. With all due respect, it’s evident that you’ve moved on from the game… and there’s nothing wrong with that. Life is about more than a text-based game. However, for the loyal player base you DO have (and I know I’m beating a dead horse), it would be an extreme breath of fresh air if we could see a bit more substantial changes to the game.

Aside from potential balancing issues that new weapons, armor, etc. would cause, I think most people would agree that it would still be pretty freaking badass to get this late into the game. Especially considering the amount of higher leveled ratio whores that are in the game now, that make leveling up to 300+ a bit lesser of a chore than it used to be. If anything, would there be a realm of possibility to just create an additional server with new experimental ideas implemented? Perhaps polls could be held to let the current player base vote on what they’d want to see added?

And if you know beyond a reasonable doubt that your time investment in this game is out the window at this stage if your life, could the game be sold to someone here? Maybe someone who would want to keep expanding on the game that most of us have been playing for nearly a decade and a half?

It’s unfortunate that most of the loyal player base seems to have just accepted the fact that there will be no substantial updates going forward. Although there are still beneficial reasons to purchase stars, I personally feel as is stars are still being bought, that there should be some creator integrity to WANT to expand the game a bit more… and again Ender, if you’re just checked out (which is okay), I suggest doing something similar to what I mentioned in the second paragraph. I know I’d love to see more, and I’m sure others wouldn’t mind either.

Also, I have little to no knowledge on the process of making a game like this or the server upkeep that is required. If selling the game is impossible due to something related to either of these things, then I understand. Personally, I just want to see things added to the game and thought I’d make this thread.

And obviously if anyone disagrees or has any qualms, feel free to share. A lot of this is what I personally want to see for the game, mixed with some things I’ve seen over other threads over time.

Agree, it was heartbreaking to see that nothing.. came out of the "What do you want to see done for the game thread", we are more than one year later and not a word about that.

That was actually a little bit of my motivation behind this one. Rather than just bumping that thread or being another one of the hundreds of comments there, I figured I’d create a new and slightly different thread related to the matter.

I feel you Laurence. Everyday I want to quit because it's just becoming boring, the players who are left attack their own bots simultaneously everyday whatever is the case dumpers, whores, rw.. I can't even say it's PVM it's just boring. Everybody who is still playing here knows all the tactics, all the possible builds, there is nothing new to explore, no new items or armour to be equiped, the only couple goals left as far as I know is to reach the highest level which would probably never happen. Winning a tourney is boring as well as everybody builds the same bots with the same builds it's so easy to do it when you are able to see the opponents armour "takes some damage.".

I honestly feel bots4 cannot survive without a massive update, even a server reset would not help as after couple months or years it would become as it is now. What would I want is more PVP in this game, new weapons, new shields, new armour maybe even some secret artifacts that could be discovered and equiped that would give extra stats on attack ratting or damage or block chance, something that not everybody easily could get after spending and hour in a chat with Jane :) But now we all try to build our bots as strong as possible but we never actually fight against each other.

RIP Real Wars

Or politely ask Ender for the main source code of Bots2 and create your own Bots game and leave the people that are happily playing Bots4 to play it as Ender sees fit and find out how many people want to play your version.

Fair enough! I've just seen plenty of other similar suggestions from others here so I felt as if the sentiment was generally similar to mine.

I understand the sentiment, but the vocal minority are generally the ones who are the loudest when it comes to matters of disdain.

The ones that are fine playing the game as is, or are even happy with the way the game is managed, aren't likely to come into a forum and express that.

But why make that "What do you want to see done for the game" thread and not follow up on it.. I was actually hyped to see Ender active there for a bit, but then nothing.

Nos are you saying 10 online players is better than 100 ? Oh lets not forget that we have 2 active clans, that should be enough to play happily forever

I further that argument with the fact that the majority of the suggestions being supplied are ones that would greatly impact and alter the state of the game.

And for better or worse, that would create a massive divide in the player base that is already fairly small (this is a niche game after all)

Furthermore, wanting to turn this game into others that you have seen or played does this game a massive disservice. If you want to play those games, then go play them. If you want something in between them and this one, then create it (as I have suggested recently here, as well as before in other threads).

I'm not suggesting there couldn't be more done to this game, but I want things added that further the already created foundation that pushed the game up, not things that alter the course of the game itself and creates another path where the game becomes something we no longer recognize as the one we all enjoy playing.

But why make that "What do you want to see done for the game" thread and not follow up on it.. I was actually hyped to see Ender active there for a bit, but then nothing.

Smeagol it's one of those days when you wake up hyped to do something about it but then you realise it's not worth doing it

Nos are you saying 10 online players is better than 100 ? Oh lets not forget that we have 2 active clans, that should be enough to play happily forever

This is a very targeted argument, and one I think that we are going to have to shelf. This game isn't for everyone, and I for one completely disagree with changing the game in order to bring in more people at the risk of causing the ones currently playing to leave because the game becomes something we no longer want to play.

But why make that "What do you want to see done for the game" thread and not follow up on it.. I was actually hyped to see Ender active there for a bit, but then nothing.

Developers of many different games ask their player base all the time what they want to see from the game.

They get feedback. Break it down to determine if the suggestions offered fit the game's core and whether or not they can implement them without altering the games design or playstyle.

I'm not suggesting there couldn't be more done to this game, but I want things added that further the already created foundation that pushed the game up, not things that alter the course of the game itself and creates another path where the game becomes something we no longer recognize as the one we all enjoy playing.

Well adding a new weapons or armour from time to time won't hurt the game it would def make it more enjoyable to play. I can see you like to build multiple bots, wouldnt be fun to create new builds that has never been created before ?

p.s. when was the last time the new weapons/armour/shields was added ?

Also how about instead of asking Ender we start giving and make a donations campaign. Most of the game developers does that, I know Ender doesn't ask but maybe we should encourage.

I think a different server to experiment with additions would be the best and easiest option to appease both sides of the player base.

However, the main issue I see with this is the amount of active players just being too little in 2024... to where the players that wouldn't really care for the changes would stay on this server, and the players wanting to experiment would play more on the new server. This would potentially make it to where there'd then be NO clan competition or anything of the sort anymore on either server due to the already small player base then being split into two.

Now if this game could bring in new players, it would be a different story but considering this is a text-base browser based game in 2024, that is just unrealistic.

So Nos, I see your side of the story too. There definitely couldn't be any rapid groundbreaking changes, but I do wish we could see little things consistently implemented over time to where it could eventually shape this game into something far greater that we would all appreciate. It's definitely a niche game, but I still don't think the sky is the limit here (:

Also pwn. I'd be very inclined to do something like that. Some sort of donation bucket we could contribute to so that Ender would be more inclined to keep improving and adding on to the game.

Well we just need to find out from Mr.Ender the amount he needs :P

I'm not completely opposed to suggestions that create progression of established game mechanics.

New weapons (assuming the fit the progression scale of ones already in the game) fall into that category.

As do a lot of QoL improvements (several of which I have asked for and Ender has obliged in adding them, a couple in the last month or so).

New weapons/armor/shields, more frequent event buffs would be a great start.

A good way to get bigger player base would be to release an app. Could be much smoother for someone like me running on iPhone. Please let me know if this already exists, and I’m unaware. Just came back after not really playing since around high school, and I’m 34 now.

I think one of the biggest issues is the game is stale after so many years. Nowadays players have rw chains all the way up to level 400, hundreds of dumpers, stars etc. Eventually it gets to the point where you have it all and there's nothing to strive for except very long term goals which aren't exciting to grind for. And for the new players it's hard to compete against years of accumulated assets.

We saw a resurgence in activity in the game after Escapism died and Lusitania was formed. Many old players who didn't play any more suddenly returned with newfound vigour. I think that for a game that doesn't get many big updates, there would be some benefit to having a new server, perhaps even one that resets periodically like Diablo seasons. Keep things fresh, give new players a chance to start on top and dominate

I strongly like the idea of a different server with “seasonal” refreshes. That was would be so refreshing and a breath of life to this game. Ender, if you read this thread, please consider this idea!!

And mobile support would actually be nice nowadays too.

I really like the idea of periodic resets (while I was writing this post and thinking on my idea, at the end it may not be really a reset). I don't know if it's completely necessary a new server or if it can be implemented here (at the end I think it can be easily implemented in the current game).

The only reset that occurs is monthly for the energy. However, you keep your total energy for long term goals.

After >10 years (I think it's 13) from the beginning of bots4, basically it's almost impossible to catch Chriseps (wins and energy) or Myriad (level). The easiest one could be energy if Aldin forgets to fill SO treasury. When Eternal and Escapism disappeared, that Hof changed a lot and it's the most easy from all of them.

With this said, I propose to make an yearly competition. Things would continue like they are now (monthly energy reset and total HoFs) but a new competition mode would be created. Now that I'm thinking, it wouldn't be that hard to do. I would do it per natural years (2024, 2025, etc.) to have the winners of the year. It's very easy, at 31st December, Ender just needs to filter the total HoFs to choose the bots built or that have been reset during that year. We could have the winners for level, wins and total energy in that particular year. In the HoFs page we could have an option to view the normal HoF and the yearly HoF that applies the filter.

I also propose to create new trophies to award the yearly winners with plats, top 10 with gold, top 100 with silver and top 1000 with bronce. If you are the opinion "rewarding even more tps is bad", this would mean much less trophies than tourneys meant when they got implemented.

I think it's a really cool idea which would make you stick to the game at least during 1 year. You could choose to rest or go easier the following year and return later if you don't feel to commit to almost impossible goals like top level or top wins.

I'm already registering Esvrainzas 2025, Esvrainzas 2026...

Hmmm I’m kind of understanding your proposal but I feel like I’m not fully understanding it. So basically, yearly competitions, but just for bots created or reset during that calendar year? Because I think that would be cool and fun. And obviously also bring more opportunities for tps to the game. If this were to be added, I’d also like to see other miscellaneous trophies added too, cuz why not lol.

I mean, competing during one month is cool, you commit for that particular month to reach a goal which is to get most energy in one month. Ok, you finally get #1 monthly energy, probably after some months building resources (or convincing your clan that they can share their resources with you) and then what? What's your goal? Go for #1 wins and energy? You have to commit to play intensively during like 2/3 years, probably you will give up after a while because you see that Chriseps is gaining again energy and wins (Aldin is still active). Go for top level? You don't have enough tps and Myriad is still active. What makes you play the game then? Go for top 10 in HoFs? The answer normally is help your clan and your teammates win more months.

With an yearly competition, you have motivation to play during a whole year. You start playing in October and it's too late to compete for that year? No problem, you have time to prepare to next year and even as a new player you might have a chance to be well placed or even win. And you can still compete for total hofs if you don't reset the bot.

I like it. It would provide goals and objectives for newer players or even returning/current players with little to no resources so they don’t have to compete with the top dogs for the trophies in the current reward system.

It would feel like sports. Each season you have a winner, a world champion...

Ok, you didn't break Usain Bolt 100m record but you were the fastest man in 2024 and it's the 5th time you are world champion which makes you a legend, even if you aren't as good as Usain Bolt.

I think it would definitely bring more activity to the game. Probably I would be more motivated to score every month for example :)

Esv your idea is ok but that could be done simply by making a new yearly hof and calling it a season or something, new server sounds great at first but then that would likely mean players abandon this one or spend less time on it.

Myriad hit the nail on the head pretty well in terms of the game being stale and old and it just needs new content(imo) whether its new gear, some different form of pvp or incentive, pvm for levelers anything really.

From my personal point of view and probably ot's, tucks and a few others what else is left to do? We have done everything on the game pretty much I just play out of habit more than anything because its nice to do alongside watching stuff not because I'm crazily excited and motivated to play. Clan wins etc don't feel exciting to me anymore was fun to keep the streak going when Lusitania was formed but now it's just 38 turning into 39 and 180 tps on a bot I don't normally use lol.

That said I will likely always play to some extent regardless of changes as it's a pretty niche game that has brought me lots of joy over the years and I'm grateful to Ender for creating it.

Yes I think my idea is like seasons, for example league of legends that culminate on world championships.

Zach - I agree new content would be great, but expecting any big content additions after all this time are pretty unrealistic. Look at the last 10 years of updates. The only real content added to the game in that time was tournaments, which was 9 years ago, and new gear which was 8 years ago and only added with a revamped absorb formula and gear names that players had to devise.

A far more realistic scenario would be adding a new server. Maybe fewer players would play on the original server, but I think most people playing currently are old timers who do it more out of habit than anything, myself included. When was the last time you were excited to level so you could upgrade a piece of equipment? When was the last time making level 150 was a big achievement? It will be on a new server.

I actually had ideas for a 1 year 'season' as well before Jorge mentioned it :p Given that it takes time to build whores/dumpers/rws etc and the small player base, less than 1 year would probably be too short. It could even be extended to 2yrs if players felt 1yr was too short. Also some consideration would need to be given for how stars would work on the new server - would you need to buy more or transfer from the original server? But regardless I think a new start would be a breath of fresh air for the game and we could see a big resurgence in activity.

I think a lot of people would play if a new server is opened. How many times did I start a new Pokemon Red/Blue game? Countless, even if I didn't finish the game, what I liked was to feel again the motivation to build and train your team of pokemons.

It would happen the same in a new server, build ratio whores, windumpers, scorers, dumpers, tourneys, probably with new bot names. I'm not sure about stars being transferable between servers. If they aren't transferrable, it would suppose some new income to Ender that might motivate him to open a new server, apart that everybody would start in the same conditions. It would lead people to make deals to get stars without donating, that's a big part of the game and the motivation to many players.

Zach - I agree new content would be great, but expecting any big content additions after all this time are pretty unrealistic.

I never said I expect it just stating I think it's what the game needs personally, like you said the last big new content we got was 8-9 years ago the tourney is old now most people have built different workshopped bots in every cat and have been using the new gear for all that time.

When was the last time you were excited to level so you could upgrade a piece of equipment?

This is kind of my point and why I would like new gear, you can equip TA at under level 300 and we are now level 400+ still using the same weapon, the new armours and the old shield you can equip a lot lower ofcourse, the new weapons wouldn't need much testing you just follow the damage path, armour/shield would need a lot of balancing/testing but lets be honest the game isn't very balanced in it's current state when you are using the same weapon for from level 290-430 and above and the same shield for even longer.

Personally I don't think equipping blaster mauls for example on a new server would excite me very much, just like the idea of starting all over again wouldn't. I like to train this bot these days maybe build the odd tourney or help in the clan race on the odd month and that's about it, I personally don't want to have to build everything again that I have built over the last 5 or so years and I definitely wouldn't.

Maybe if the new server had different exp mechanics or points per level etc similar to OSRS leagues I would get more excited about it. Otherwise I would probably play a few hours and lose interest then go back to training this bot.

This is all my opinion also I'm not demanding anything or slating the game, I still enjoy it as it is, I just think I could enjoy it more.

Vote pool for opening a new server will solve this problem

Not really trying to derail or anything here but to explain why Ender doesn't sell the game etc. is because he views the game as "his hobby" or something of the sort. It's a perfectly fine way to view a single player game that you've made and sell etc. for a few dollars or something since so long as people want to play it and buy it then they can enjoy it. A multiplayer only game like this one is different though and it's hard to justify a game played by multiple real people as "the hobby" of just one person. This game is made up of the efforts of thousands of people over the years and those people also have their ideas/suggestions/experiences with it and combined the "hobby" of one becomes the hobby of many if you will to sustain the game from a complete death.

Many a multiplayer game dies on the back of sustaining its community and there are multiplayer games out with many millions of dollars spent on them that have somehow less players than this one does (Concord lol). The problem specifically with this game is that Ender has built it to a degree that only he can work on it and doesn't want to sell it/only works on it when he wants to. Even if he were to sell the game, the challenge would be to find somehow who the community would find acceptable as a replacement and have the necessary coding to work on it. Which leads to the current status of things only getting done when he has the time for them which may or may not work for the people playing the game since things tend to get sidetracked or forgotten about or put on hold etc. Those days become years and Ender's general unwillingness to update people on what he's working on doesn't help in this regard. So after a year without updates or barely any logging in to be seen or him talking well, at all, it's easy to just think of him as gone or as many of us used to joke "Ender, are you alive?" etc. on the forums.

Anyway, the reason I wrote all this is to state that this has been discussed before for the newer players out there that might wonder "hey, why doesn't Ender just log on and add some changes or a new server or weapons or something?" Sure it's repetitive and people might chastise me for stating it the way I did but it's about as accurate as I can be without being mean to Ender or anyone else on the game.

Btw, I've been asking for a new server for years :( BLUE SERVER 4 EVA! GREEN SUX!

The argument that the game is Enders hobby would make sense, if it actually was his hobby. It may have been his hobby 13 years ago, but if the last major update was 10 years ago it certainly hasn't been his hobby for a long time now.
What I would like to see Ender do is bring on a few hobby devs from the community, allow them to submit contributions to a github project for Ender accept or decline.

^^^^ Great idea.

I don't see the harm in Ender opening up the floor for his loyal player base that is still around. It would be a good time for him to do something like that now that we are seeing three reputable players selling off bots. This game just needs something to create a spark again.

I definitely haven't moved on from the game! I know updates don't come as fast as some players would like, but my plan (as always - I've always said I'm in this for the long haul) is to keep making progress on the game as time allows. My available time is almost always the limiting factor. I know that's not the response some of you want, but I'll keep trying to be transparent about where things are going, what my intentions are, and sharing bits about what I'm working on when I have something to share.

And to address a few other specific things from this thread...

I think that for a game that doesn't get many big updates, there would be some benefit to having a new server, perhaps even one that resets periodically like Diablo seasons. Keep things fresh, give new players a chance to start on top and dominate

I agree. I talked about this a little in http://bots4.net/forum/10/7808 (ctrl+F "Game reset / energy decay"). It would be a bigger change, so it would take longer to build.

Ender's general unwillingness to update people on what he's working on doesn't help in this regard.

I go back and forth in my head on this one. I actually spend quite a bit of time reading and posting on the forums. I debate whether my limited time is better spent on dev work or community engagement (e.g. this thread). I'm open to feedback on recalibrating.

I personally feel as is stars are still being bought, that there should be some creator integrity to WANT to expand the game a bit more

I agree with this. Motivation isn't the constraining factor though, it's time.

So after a year without updates or barely any logging in to

I'm comfortable with people wanting more updates (this is a good thing! it means you care about the game!), but I want to set the record straight for anyone reading this and taking some of the claims in this thread at face value. I've put substantial dev time into the game (some, but not all of it reflected in the Announcements sub-forum) this past year and checks logs logged in 80 days out of the 300 so far this year.

the "What do you want to see done for the game thread", we are more than one year later and not a word about that

Same response as above. Let's not use hyperbole. The feedback from that thread has and continues to be a main source of input for what I spend dev time on. I have said many words in lengthy responses on that thread. Some ideas have been implemented. Many have not.

Since this is the suggestions forum I'll add a suggestion this time around as to your response to the new server idea Ender:

I agree. I talked about this a little in http://bots4.net/forum/10/7808 (ctrl+F "Game reset / energy decay"). It would be a bigger change, so it would take longer to build.

See, this is nice and all and it circles back to what I said about not updating people on progress, this statement doesn't really mean anything. Yes you agreed to it before, yes it is a large change, yes it would take long to build, but is it being worked on at all is the actual question. What I and probably lots of other people would rather see is a worksheet of things being worked on and progress being made rather than you talking about every subject. So for example, at the end of each month you could do this:

Progress Report:
Work on new server 10% complete
Work on new monetization projects 30% complete
Work on new weapons 50% complete

Stuff like that then the next month you could either say it's still 10% complete or maybe you worked on it a little and it's 20% complete now (you can just guess if you want, it just shows you worked on that item). This would be useful for you to keep track of your own work (I'm sure you have your own worksheet) while updating everyone on what you're working on rather than people being like "Ender, you ok? it's been like a year and a half" etc. You could say you were too busy this month to work on something for an update. It's the case of maybe something is better than nothing. If you look at most active online multiplayer games even if there's no new events or anything people do tend to like being updated on the games they play.

If seasonal servers are something that Ender wants to implement, I would like to remind everyone that seasonal servers usually come with a reward and/or unique gameplay aspect that may make require work than expected. For the rewards they could be as simple as a graphic on your profile and/or a new permanent benefit for your main account (make mains great again!).

The difficulties arise when discussing possible unique gameplay aspects. It would be simple to start with one or more permanent buffs for the duration of the server. This could be a good place to experiment with permanent fight speed increases, xp boosts, ect. I would actually like to see fight speed/kudos gain and xp reduction removed as buffs and added to gear in some way as the last two especially don't compete for the daily buff purchase, and fight speed would be a valuable stat to give people permanent access to.

This is also a good place to make sweeping changes to game balance. Some things I would be very interested in seeing are complete rebalances of shields (one idea is to change the amount of base block a shield grants, and grant bonus block for going above the require dex to equip the shield. eg: 220 dex to equip shield grants 30% block if you have 260 dex gain 4% additional block, capped at 5%). Another place I would like to see changes are low - mid level weapon rebalances, this could be a simple way to change up the meta, especially now that low level scoring has taken over. Seasonal servers could also provide a nice way to implement a new PvE based mode of item acquisition.

Finally, seasonal servers could provide Ender a way to focus his efforts on a particular aspect of the game. While Ender may have ideas about what he wants to work on, there is no time-limiting factor behind those decisions. If a new server is released every 3, 6 or 12 months, it creates a need to focus on the next iteration of the game. Keeping in mind I am totally aware the main restriction for Enders contributions is time, which is why I believe it would also be valuable to bring on some help.

Makes sense, wanting to get an idea of what's coming next in terms of updates. I'm usually happy to share my thoughts on different ideas when I have them, which is what I was doing in that thread (and I assume at least some people find that useful). I've generally been more hesitant to make stronger commitments to large changes though because of unpredictability of my time for coding as well as giving me the freedom to change my mind while building something and getting into the details (which has happened) without disappointing people.

All that said, I can give this a try. I'll try to collect my scattered notes about various ideas into something coherent that can be posted as a sort of "upcoming dev plans" announcement - we'll see how it goes. Maybe it'll be a useful exercise for me too to come up with something more meaningful than QoL improvements and bug fixes.

Re: seasonal servers, I was thinking of it more like old school Diablo II where (IIRC) it's just "simply" a ladder reset. If you want to appear in the ladder, you need to create a new character. Old characters persist and can be used, but don't appear on ladder and can't trade to post-new-ladder characters. So no new mechanics or tweaks for each season. That's not to say I'm against tweaking mechanics for seasons (more exp, less exp, etc.), if I were to implement them, my point is just that I don't think a season mechanic necessarily has to require more ongoing dev work.

Problems I can see arising from a ladder reset vs a seasonal server are less draw back to the game (think d2 ladders vs poe seasons), as well as a problem with high level bots.
We also essentially already have a ladder reset in the form of monthly energy and being forced to reset while farming trophy points (if we could choose to keep our wins/losses and only reset levels that might add more competition at the top of the leader board).
Even though a seasonal server may be more work, it could start with small changes to gameplay (xp buffs, fight speed buffs, ect.) and expand from there when time permits it.

Can we just have back good old rape day (unlimited fights)

With energy now, wouldn't unlimited fights mostly only be good for leveling purposes on ratio whores versus gaining energy?

And with name being problematic, I think that is just best left in the past.

I guess, however, if the day had unlimited buffs then it would sorta be comparable?