suggestions

While HA is enabled it needs to be impossible to gain energy
I am seeing players dumping 100k~ energy an hour using a combination of HA and Dark Energy. This cannot possibly be intentional.
It's taken me a week to get to 500k~ energy and players are able to dump that amount in an evening.
Ender, you need to change this before the meta devolves into hoarding thousands of HA buffs and using them all to dump energy, with enough bots you could do this every day of the year, especially at lower levels where the fight limit is only 50.

Watch players argue against this suggestion.

Can you have more than one? It's 500 battles?

500 battles below level 50 is ten days worth of buff. Between 50-100 it's 5 days.
You have to remember some people have thousands of bots with HA.

500 battles is 500 battles.

How is it 10 days or 5 days?

Do you not know how the fight limit works..?

Maybe having the Dark Energy only be able to be used by itself would be a good idea, no hastened adventure, no speed buffs etc. would be good. I do think that speed buffs + kodiak intellect should be left though since ratio whore battles and train battles can get super long without them lol.

You have to remember some people have thousands of bots with HA.

Players were rewarded with that buff for being active in the 3 months before, so now they should be punished for playing the game because the people that never played don't have access to bots with HA?

Sure let's do that and make more old school players that dedicated a lot of their time to bots4 to leave the game for good.

No one's trying to punish anyone - c'mon, man.

And your current, incessant threatening to quit thing is pretty freaking weak.

The truth is Ender pretty obviously was trying to manipulate the game towards "real fights" and such and that very obviously didn't work out.

As such, it just stands to reason that some rebalancing could be beneficial.

When a game has mechanics that are broken then nerfs are A GOOD THING.

At this point old players can get fucked. If making any changes, especially fixing obviously unintentional interactions like this aren't going to be supported by them, then I don't really care what they have to say.

Otherwise the meta is going to change to sitting here making 10,000 bots to get HA and dumping 500k energy per day for the last 2 weeks of every month.
Nothing else can compete with that, it's actually pointless playing the game when someone can do what takes you a week (with Dark Energy III) in one day.

I can actually give an example of this in action this month though, I started scoring around the 15th or so and used a daily Dark Energy II or so and gained 400k doing so by using whores etc. and was fighting a couple of others for 8/9/10th place that were doing the same pretty much with maybe a little dumping but they didn't go say, 100k+ per day or something. Then mara got caught and all of a sudden my 8th or 9th place at 400k turned into 10th place being 700k in just the past 2-3 days. All 3 bots that were 8th/9th.10th are not anymore (me, Mal and Nos I think) and all have been replaced by bots that were obviously dumped on the past 2-3 days constantly.

FloySage for example had I think close to normal 30k score (not sure but now he has 584k, Scabara had 600k or so and now have near 1.2 million, NBA XXVII had nothing either and now has 864k. So either hastened adventure must have been used to go from 30k to 800k in 2-3 days or I'm blind or something :P

NBA XXVII was at 510,000 when I went to bed, and was behind me by 10,000.
He is now at 869,000 and ahead of me by 340,000.

Similar things with Zach02 and Laser Kiwi.
Laser Kiwi has gained around 400,000 in the last 16 hours or so.

Maybe in the clan list for the top 20 heists, it shows the top 20 players in the last 24 hours as well?

NBA XXVII was at 510,000 when I went to bed, and was behind me by 10,000. He is now at 869,000 and ahead of me by 340,000.

Similar things with Zach02 and Laser Kiwi. Laser Kiwi has gained around 400,000 in the last 16 hours or so.

I don't see where is the problem. Those players have HA bots and you dont have them (well you could have access to some if you ask your clan to use them).

The problem is the hoarding of buffs and energy until the few people that have those bots use them. My scoring was pretty much nullified by it as were others but it gives an advantage to older players or ones with too many trophy points/buffs. As it stands there's bots with 23k+ trophy points and armies of bots with hastened adventure and the like that put newer players or those without a lot of clan resources at a disadvantage. If I was a new player and I put in a good amount of effort to do what I did this month and thought I was doing good just to have it all shit on in 2 days by those with too many resources, I'd probably quit scoring, leave the game, or join one of the clans with too many resources.

Mind you I've been talking about the hoarding of energy/buffs/dumpers etc. and all this shit for years now and nothing ever seems to happen so whatever. This isn't a game about real wars at all, it's just a hoarding game, who can collect the most shit lol.

You don't see how this can be exploited by someone motivated enough to make enough bots to do this for an entire month?

I think it's really telling that Esvz is perfectly aware of the problem by how he threatened to quit... and now is simply playing stupid and accusing others of being jealous (while also suggesting all you have to do is ask seemingly anyone and profit).

It's just beyond absurd, tbh.

C'mon, Esvz. At least put a little effort into the BS. That was embarrassing for you.

I see "new" players in my clan using HA and they are happy. If you don't want to participate in a race that didn't happen for several years it's your decision.

Please don't cry that your score is gone this month because of your own decisions.

What are you even talking about?

It's a simple concept.

You refuse to discuss it and just keep spouting ridiculous BS.

Now, these legitimate thoughts are dismissed because... um... supposedly, you know people (totally real people, of course!)... and they like stuff? And everyone else that was just trying to have a conversation are "crying?"

For freak's sake, dude.

You can't even defend the way things are working. You obviously know it's broken. But because you can't even come up with a mediocre defense of how things work... you're just resorting to the most asinine BS possible.

I love it. I love you, dude.

I've enjoyed this immensely, thanks.

We are in a historical moment where 2 clans are working like real teams, sharing an effort, doing its max to beat the opponent. This is the best that could happen in clan competition.

And you are complaining about it? Don't you like to play in team? Don't you like to see this crazy activity? Jeez, enjoy the moment instead of moaning about it.

I like the idea personally. At least with the regular buffs there is a hard limit. Hoarding bots with an exclusive buff that gets handed out at what is essentially random, but more importantly scarce, is honestly just making scoring more degenerate. Making it non factor for energy seems like the most reasonable way to go about addressing that, opposed to just eliminating the buff, making it expire or whatever else that way it could still be utilized in other ways.

Esvz, this is the SUGGESTIONS part of the forums.

It is for discussing possible improvements to the game.

If you are unwilling, or incapable, of actually discussing the suggestions? Maybe bugger off, m'kay?

It's a very valid suggestion that almost certainly encourages something closer to how Ender was intending the game to be played.

The dumping method being so pervasive and deemed superior by most from "normal gameplay" is a giant red flag...

Alright, I'm going to focus on scoring and getting out of this thread. If this is going to happen, please do it now and save me using more HA bots tomorrow.

If you actually had a criticism of the idea, mind you, it would be constructive to actually voice that..

But yeah, personally, I definitely think thos is one of the many issue I have with the buffs...

I definitely don't think they've had the exact impact that was hoped for.

And I'm always for attempts at rebalancing.

Really, it's like every game... players hate idea of "nerfs" and such... doesn't matter how illogical those feelings are. But rebalancing is great for games and... shifting metagames are great, too.

So, you can't one-punch end boss using unintended glitch anymore. The game's better for the fix and you adapt. As much as players love to "cheat" games by taking advantage of broken design, there's always some other way to "cheat."

You would think everyone in this thread but Esv and G are one and the same? Hmmm

I disagree with the suggestion. For many reasons but primarily because this isn’t NEW. These buffs have existed for quite some time and have been used in the manner you suggest is “(cheating the system)” for a very long time.

Well I say get in line, there are bigger fundamental problems with the game that should be addressed first. I mean, People win clan races by attacking their god dam self and you want to make a buff sound like the culprit here?

George our current monthly energy leader is hitting himself with himself for himself by himself with bits that are himself…. But buffs clearly need to be fixed! Lmfao

Guys are getting to level 300 in a week! Please do tell how long would it take for a new player to get to 300? -3 years!?

You guys act like buffs are the only way in which one can accumulate engery? Last time I checked buffs were not required. And considering the fundamental flaw in which this game currently exists, buffs are the least of its concerns.

First off, I'm not Zal or Asmodeus... not sure why anyone would possibly think three clearly different people are the same... but, whatever.

And... who's attacking themselves?

The dumpers don't even get used attacking their own owner's bots. That's not how anything works. You make it sound like it's the equivalent to one player attacking their own whore, but just being logged on the whore instead.

But... let's pretend that WAS how things actually worked and how they were being used (a strictly theoretical exercise, of course, since that isn't how they're used).

In such a scenario, it would STILL skirt Ender's ideas of how buffs were meant to be used in game, as it would be used to bypass the intended design of making the buffs a temporary and no consistent part of the game).

I've been on record that if people like buffs and want permanent buffs... then freaking just make them all permanent.

Instead, we have a system where players are effectively forced to play in all sorts of completely broken ways to try and "cheat" the system.

Sorry, when the game is actively discouraging players from simply and intuitively clanscoring on their own bot then... something is kinda messed up.

And when the game is feeding other people as much energy as possible then it's completely THE OPPOSITE of what would be intuitive for anyone joining the game and... completely the opposite of what Ender ever intended.

It's like if you decided to play Call of Duty and found out the meta was actually dying as fast as possible because that somehow improved your score in game more than shooting your opponents. That would be a broken game you were playing and that game should be patched.

You guys act like buffs are the only way in which one can accumulate engery? Last time I checked buffs were not required.

You can paint a house with a very fine and tiny detail paintbrush... so what's the worry, right? Why would anyone care that that would take a thousand times longer and be bonkers ineffective? What is it with these people suggesting a paint roller instead?

More news at 11: Players that benefit from exploiting game mechanics don't want those exploits closed.

So if Ender makes the DE3 permanent by making a bot gain 40-60 energy per win per default, and eliminate buffs, dumpers would become useless because you could use your main all day draining energy at maximum speed posible. I like the idea.

And if it isn't asking too much, make the default speed battles as the speed of 250% speed.

The gain of kudos could also be like the 250% kudos buff. The only thing I'm not sure is the xp buff. Levelers want 250% xp, low level scorers want 25% experience buff. Maybe there could be an option to choose between gain max xp, gain min xp.

We could play all day long without worrying about having enough tps or buff limits.

The only other sane option is limiting buffs so that they don't dominate the game.

But the notion that the current system of forcing players to do all sorts of nonsensical things to try and exploit the game is just bonkers, honestly.

I've been making suggestions in that vein for months.
TPS and playing around buffs is a detrimental effect on the game overall.
At the very least the speed boost and energy boost should be made baseline, while the xp reduction, kudos, and xp buffs could remain as buffs since they are more situational.

+1 for making speedboost baseline, this game is so slow without it :)

Speed 1 should really be the baseline speed of the game the current base speed is too slow anything higher would be a bit excessive.

HA buffs arent really horded the issue there is the meta being dumpers are king and your looking at thousands of dumpers built over the years and traded around so of course certain people will be able to horde tons of them.

They kind of already are built in to not be used though in the current meta outside very competitive months because neither side wants to just waste them cause you might need them in a competitive month so in most cases they just rot on dumpers for years and do nothing anyways.

You could limit their usage of being abused into 1 bot changing that buff to be on a timer from the moment that buff is turned on and cannot be turned off again i suppose maybe 10 minutes or something but you would just spread the energy to more than one target anyways with that.

Personally I think if you want to truely break the current meta all buffs should be on a timer that cannot be turned off and the limit of buffs purchased per day should be removed. This would destroy dumpers usefulness to horde energy into one bot over a long period of time as they dont have the tp to sustain rebuying them every few days to repeat this process.

neither side wants to just waste them cause you might need them in a competitive month so in most cases they just rot on dumpers for years and do nothing anyways.

So now, they are "fine" because they are... um... so good and invaluable?

That's... an argument, I guess...

They are fine in their current installment.

Because they're so good and valuable!

Uh huh.

By this logic, making them less valuable would, seemingly, make them more broken somehow... sure.

The people that dont have them will always complain because its fancy and they dont have it.

In all actuality that buff is very good in competitive months but i dont think theres a single instance of it being completely game breaking that just using it won a month for anyone. It still requires someone to actually click a shitload of times to make any real impact with it. I can think of 1 idea of how to break the game with the exploit of that buff in the current game meta but I havent tested it yet to see if its functionally possible and tbh i dont wanna click that much

Yeah a tiny paint brush is how the game was designed, and every now and then you are gifted with a paint roller.

More news at 11: Players that benefit from exploiting game mechanics don't want those exploits closed.

Not exactly, what i suggest is that we do not regress the game. How would records be handled then? do you know how much monthly clan/individual records were set with HA? So essentially the newer generation of bots players would never be able to achieve the greatness of breaking records. Unless of course you are suggesting we take those records away and add a tarnished label to everyone that utilized the HA buffs?

Not sure who this malcorn guy is but you must be new to believe the entire game mechanics (with overlap) is essentially attacking yourself. In all areas of the game the quickest and most efficient way to get ahead is precisely to attack yourself, weather dumpers, RW.

you guys must be in your mid 20's. Whats next the bot image in showroom should have an option for pronouns? or have a more feminine appearance?

do you know how much monthly clan/individual records were set with HA

I think it very telling that all the arguments "defending" the brokenness of things... fully are conceding the brokenness of things.

Oh no, can't fix the game now because then no one will probably ever beat the current speed run records! Yuck.

...and, once again, those other two people weren't that "Malachorn guy." That... wasn't even my quote you used there.

Malachorn is everywhere and inside all of you (especially your moms), but Malachorn isn't literally everybody.

Idk i think the energy record solo could be broken without HA i didnt use dreads for that still think 7mil is doable in a month by someone dedicated enough.

How do you definitively know that?

You seem very confident, almost defensive...

The man literally began his statement with "Idk i think..." and you're like "how do you know that for a 100% fact?" C'mon, man, conversations don't work if you aren't going to put any effort into having a good faith one. What are you doing?

I don't know, maybe, I think, perhaps, possibly you are reading too much into things.

Nos is certainly and definitely a man that definitively knows things.

I can see both sides of this honestly. But heres my 2 cents to this.

HA is given out randomly, i get that new players might not have this buff thus are weaker in the race for energy.

Kev is right, dumping is king. even if you take out HA from dumpers, speed2 and de3 buff work just fine, just take slightly longer time to do what you want to do but not by so much that its impossible.

HA being horded? Well if you were a business person, you would want to maximize your profit. You also want to stay in business for a long time so you started slow, worked your way up and now have more money cause of the time and work you spent doing. I look at the HA buff the same way as such.

Again i see both sides of it but HA isnt really that game breaking, just slightly faster it also doesnt last forever either.