complaints

This game is Corrupt! 1.If a mod found out someone auto clicked they wouldn't say anything 2. Ender finds out someone is auto clicking and he takes a massive break from the game. Wouldn't suprised me if he is in it with everyone else and accepts auto clicking as long as you pay him money!

I don't accept autoclicking. However sometimes when weighing up the potential outcomes inaction, especially when the player has quit, is for the greater good of the game.

No If someone cheated/cheating the community should know

I feel i'm missing some key information here ^^ whats this about?

Only time will tell, It will come out sooner or later.

Indeed it will, as the player in question has confessed all to Wiggin.

He has

So.. your problem is that someone is/was cheating, and it's not made known to the community? But you won't say anything either?

Ok, makes sense ;)

yeah you cant make a public forum post leader and not spill the beans lol.

-pothead.

Meh, My point is If rose found out the person had or was cheating she wouldn't have said anything. Which defeats the point of her being a Mod beyond a joke

Gotta spice up the forum some how pothead ^_^

My point is If rose found out the person had or was cheating she wouldn't have said anything.

This is just not true, which Ender can confirm. If you dont 'believe' that, well, that's just too bad.

In this circumstance, with the potential outcomes. I may not have said anything no.

Like I said I weighed up the impact on the community, the game & a certain individual (not the autoclicker). All would have lost out from it.

Yeah I dont really believe she wouldnt say anything either :S I dont understand what we are getting at here but oh well, crack on. And dont cheat or you might die a slow painful death.

ok she wouldnt say anything. this is lame

That's exactly why I spilled the beans, How would it have been fair on that certain individual? It wouldn't have

If someone's cheating let the people know! But it wouldn't surprise me if half of you was cheating anyway Ender never ever ever found a way of catching the A/cer. (Which is a coincidence if you ask me)

Ender never ever ever found a way of catching the A/cer

Didn't he just catch someone?

why I spilled the beans

You havent said anything!

But apparently Ender knows, so we'll see what happens.

Exactly Jan's. They auto clicked every time they played bots. He might have caught someone recently but obviously they wasn't clever enough?!

Also didn't Bfal reach 200+ before ender caught him? Alan also went a month or 2 before he was caught same as the recent guy. It's lame

That does suck, and i wish Ender would spend more time online, keeping an eye on things.

By the way, it's never a forum mod's task to share information / rumours of cheating with the community. Only Ender has the technical ability to gather evidence and act upon it.

By the way, it's never a forum mod's task to share information / rumours of cheating with the community. Only Ender has the technical ability to gather evidence and act upon it.

Which is understandable but if they know someone cheated or is currently cheating they wouldn't go telling ender nor the community about this person having used or is currently using an A/C

The suspense is killing me. Who cheated/is cheating? I...have...to...know!!!

For me only one thing matters: is he part of Escapism?

Chat saved me. I can sleep now :)

I hope Ender says something about this. We deserve an answer to why he was not caught before.

Tbh I don't give a shit if somebody auto clicks I know many that have and not been caught I know many that have and been caught I also know of a couple that still do and have been on in the last week autoclicking

but in my eyes a moderator should be helping ender anyway possible and if they know of somebody they should say if not they should lose moderator

That's just my opinion

No one cares about your opinion.

-pothead.

Mods, and Ender for that matter, aren't obligated to say anything...

Tbh I don't give a shit if somebody auto clicks I know many that have and not been caught I know many that have and been caught I also know of a couple that still do and have been on in the last week autoclicking

First and foremost, you're a moron. To allow cheating, in any capacity, simply for the sake of making a game look more active is completely ludicrous.

but in my eyes a moderator should be helping ender anyway possible and if they know of somebody they should say if not they should lose moderator

Their title is forum moderator, not game administrator. They hold the exact same ability as everyone else in this game. The simple sake of them being forum mods doesn't place them above the rest of us with regards to the rest of the game.

That's just my opinion

See pothead's comment above.

Lol I allow it cause I don't give a fuck if they do I'm happy for them to do it the reasoning isn't because of the amount shown on line even though that is a plus point I don't give a fuck cause I don't blame them for doing it

I also agree the mods aren't above us in the game but they should help ender in anyway they can or else people such as bfal can get away with it for so long which I knew about from the start and tbh so should everybody else that gives a shit

I do think ender needs to be on more though to stop the the amount of ac that is being done

And also you arse Licking pithead? It very well looks like it

First of all, it's Pothead*... and dude I don't know what it is with you but your views are absolutely fucking retarded, as I'm sure not just nos but the whole community agrees.

This game is all about time investment, will-power and any other strong traits in a personality you can think of, you cant justify cheating on this game for absolutely any reason at all. I cant believe I am actually having this debate with a 30 year old man, If you are going to cheat...do it in a game where you arent affecting others like gta offline.

I also personally think you should be banned from the game for advocating cheating.

He's Satan, he's just performing his role.

well tbh if you arew all for me getting banned for advocating cheating then anybody who knows that somebody as AC must be banned so which ever mod it was should be banned as they also seemed all for it when it was possibly a friend and somebody who has put alot of money into the game and played for a long time :)

and 30? not even hit 28 yet so definitely not 30

my views are retarded just because i dont give a shit if anybody cheats or not? how is it retarded its called just not giving a shit if somebody is to ac and they get passed me in level im all for them too do so

and also its not will power for me its just habit, iv been doing it so long now i just get on laptop/pc and think bots and the arachnid websites/forums

I hate spiders.

if someone were to tell me that they were cheating, i would tell them to stop. if they continued to cheat, then i'd tell ender to take a close look at their playing.

In this circumstance, with the potential outcomes. I may not have said anything no.

Like I said I weighed up the impact on the community, the game & a certain individual (not the autoclicker). All would have lost out from it.

With all respect, that's a whole lot of bullshit neatly packed into a a few sentences. What shes really saying here is that "I may or may not out the person depending on my own train of thought"

I have been here more or less since day one, starting on the blue server. I can't think of any cheating player who has not been draged through the mud (forum) for his or hers actions. I don't see why it should stop here. If its a mods job ? Probably not, but Im just pointing out that she might in some cases. Do it 100% of the time, or don't do it at all. But I take for granted that Ender gets the information 100% of the time.

You cheated, I don't see how your opinion matters at all.

Why does ender make those people mods? Maybe he and the others trust those more than any other player. So I personally thinks those people should be the first to let ender know that someone is auto clicking mot hide it from the community.

Not hide it from the community and him***

offline [last seen 9 days ago]

This is the main problem though.

I only expect him to go and do the same thing once he finds out ant all of this

Leader do you not listen at all? There is a reason for her not saying anything which for me in this case is perfectly acceptable, now stop whining like a little baby and drop it as this is getting boring as hell. Just play the game man... jesus christ.

And i forgot to add, dragonrose for me is the perfect person for head moderator, always fair, active and a good listener.

Feeling better now Zachariah? :)

hope I got the name right

And i forgot to add, dragonrose for me is the perfect person for head moderator, always fair, active and a good listener. And she has a rusty spoon

+1

I am benny :) got to keep the allies in check hehe!

Oh no! who give her a rusty spoon!?

runs away

The problem isn´t that someone gave her a rusty spoon. The problem is that we can´t take it from her.

just want to ask for clarification, is it still a "forum moderator"'s work to always inform the public about such things? or even discuss it with ender?

As far as i know a forum moderator's work is just to moderate the forum and nothing else. they decide to lock a thread or probably delete as well depending on the content. so basically, aside from that, they're just normal players playing the game. it's their decision to divulge any information (on the forums or on Ender himself) on such things or not. they aren't really responsible to keep track or investigate cheaters. it's all Ender's work.

So you cant blame them for all of it. If they're "Game Moderators", then it's right to point it to them. and as far as i know, there are no current game moderators that Ender assigned.

that's only my opinion though. no offense made. if i understand it incorrectly, kindly correct me. :)

[khael]

^ exactly Khael

A forum moderators obligation to monitor other players or pass on information is no more than any other responsible player.

All the moderators are volunteers & receive no recompense for what they do. They do however receive criticism & on occasion abuse.

Luckily I am armed with a rusty spoon ;)

i think its favouritism if it was somebody she disliked im sure she would say something

is that how it is???

yes SJ, that's how it is.

I have a good reason to cheat too, so you all shut up and let me do it ok ;)

*Looks around for an AC

*finds an AC...

*Turns it on and enjoys cool air.

It does amuse me that I am being criticised from some for what is essentially a thought crime. I did not know the player was cheating and they did not confess to me. It further amuses me that I am being criticised by a busted cheater and someone who quite openly States they do not give a shit about cheating. Call me paranoid but I am seeing hidden agendas here.

Anyhoo off to room 101 I go... I hope there is no snow

i just think you either dont tell ender of anybody who ACs or you tell him about everything

you shouldnt pick and choose which i believe you would do

if it was me that ACs im sure you would tell ender

Indeed it will, as the player in question has confessed all to Wiggin.

well, given that the player confessed to Ender shortly after confessing to others, what difference does it make?

SJ your an absolute retard.

awwww chimpus didnt know you cared

He doesn't. No one does.

Still no name on this entire thread who it is. Lame shit.

You know who it is (and have known for as long as he has AC'd), lame shit.

Im loyal to whoever is loyal to me.

Sounds to me like you are sticking up for him, you could be clicking too. You are so pure, yet you keep names sacred.

We're waiting for this guy;
Status: offline [last seen 11 days ago]

But yeah, lets talk about the elephant in the room. Allegedly it was Ville who confessed to Ender he has been using a clicker.

Using an ACer that Alan created (what a shining light you are on the game, Alan), dating back to Dynasty (this wasn't a "new" thing)

wow... if that is the case.. doesn't that have pretty big implications... on pretty much all the results of his clan? he's pretty much finished top 10 every month? and thats just basing it off his main bot only?

sorry not really in the loop of things just surprised if it really is ville that this is about

yah, it basically taints everything he's 'accomplished' along with the accomplishments of the clans he was in. and its tough for me to say that since i see ville as a friend

It was Ville this entire time? Ouch..

Don't play dumb, you are toxic to this game.

Don't pin this on me. Everyone has a choice to live their own path.

No one's pinning him using it on you. But you can't sit there and act as if you weren't the one who gave it to him.

Meh Alan provided a utility that was wanted. If he hadn't of produced it someone else would've.

The real issue here is that the tool ran undetected & we would still know nothing now without the confession.

Do you accuse the drug dealer or the drug user for the overdose?

bots is hardly life or death ...

both are guilty, both are illegal, as for the user as for the provider, the provider should be punished more hard though, as he caused the problem, the user just overdid it

Do you accuse the drug dealer or the drug user for the overdose?

That has got to be the stupidest analogy anyone could have used, so obviously you would use it. You blame the drug dealer. He's the enabler. He's the one supplying the illegal goods.

Lol yeah, terrible analogy. Just look at conviction lengths for supplying illegal drugs vs "just" possession. (In no way am I condoning or saying what Ville did was fine)

No one saves us but ourselves. No one can and no one may. We ourselves must walk the path. Buddha

Each of us is responsible for our own choices & must appease our own conscience.

It still sounds like you guys are sticking up for whoever it is. Hilarious.

Rose nailed it right on the head with that quote.

It was Ville this entire time? Ouch..

then...

It still sounds like you guys are sticking up for whoever it is. Hilarious.

You're a bad troll.

It was Ville. No ones hiding that, hes ruined the game for a ton of people.

we never have more than 10 bots online nowadays, autoclicking doesn't ruin the game - lack of players does.

Thats a ridiculous thing to say, just like steroids ruin the olympics or more notably the tour de france, auto-clicking ruins this game, who the hell wants to win the clan competition with a cheater or look at the hof history knowing its basically all a lie.

Not to mention some people have spent months/years playing time to be as succesful as they are on this game.

I would rather play this game on my own than with cheaters. Imagine all the plats!

Let's just say there has been a few close calls Top 10's or with the top 2 clans and cheating has been the difference

I have to say the implications of these events have completely tainted everything that has occured up to now.

Not to mention, like has been stated, showcases the complete disregard the owner of this game has.

+1. agree with nos, this completely changes clan history, some things are hard to change as we took 3 wins with zion, i feel proud of myself but can't say that anymore of overall clan performance :(

Past is past, we can't change it. Now it's important to know why Ender didn't notice he was cheating. I always relied on Ender capacity to catch cheaters and now I wonder who else may be cheating.

There will always be cheaters. It's human and bots4 isn't immune to it.

that's some pretty impressive "clicking" Esvrainzas.

It's perfectly possible. That image shows that I clicked 5 links in 3 seconds right? Try it yourself. Have 5 windows open and put all of them stopped in the end of the fight. Then start clicking fight again in the first until the last window very quickly. See how many seconds you took.

It's possible to click two links in the same second. However, I would say it's impossible to click 3 links in one second...

I was using the dumper in the window in the middle and the winsdumpers at the side windows. Since winsdumpers are fast and I was using 5 bots, usually I had the winsdumper of one side both waiting for clicking. So I was clicking those at the same second. Did I explain it well? I tried to record myself but I couldn't get a video with the mouse pointer in it... Well, if anyone suspects that I'm cheating, I'm glad they monitor and test me whenever they want.

There'll be lots of ACing accusations in the coming months I guess. I will point out on windumpers, you generally click all 4 at once, as fast as you can, rather than them being delayed (because the fights are so short). I don't think Esv AC's.

This isn't me defending Escapism, I was the first to tell Ender I thought Wannabe was ACing (when he was), but I've never seen any evidence Esv AC's.

two bots 0 seconds ago, two bots 1 second ago...that's 4 in the span of 1 second

I know where you're going shoe, but if you use the keyboard shortcuts extension, then all you need to do is click anywhere on the window to be able to "click" the link with the keyboard shortcut, making this easily obtainable. Especially if you shrink your windows down to the size of only having them large enough just so you can see the links and only the links to something like this, obtaining this seems reasonable.

I don't trust anyone anymore

Fair enough.

I trust Jans and Rose :)

*cough*brownnose*cough*

You should have that throat looked at Jans.

I'm still sorting through this mess. If you have information you want to share, now's the time (in private, please). I'll have more news on this tomorrow.

I have no new news today. I'm sorting out this sticky situation in private and will share publicly once this is complete.

Still sorting this out.

I trust Ender...ALL HAIL!

I'm in what I hope are the final phases of resolving this. I hope to have a full announcement in the next day or two.

[Meta note: If you care about this situation or this game, I strongly encourage you to read through this entire post that follows and the linked email thread. These are long reads, but they're worth it because they give insight into the mindset that I operate this game with.]

As is usual with these kinds of threads, there's a lot to respond to here. Too much. Instead of trying to respond to everything individually, I'm going to respond more generally by addressing what I believe are the main concerns being raised. In what I believe to be the order of importance:

1. Ville cheated for a long time and it went unnoticed - This is by far the biggest problem to come out of this mess. Who wants to invest their time (and possibly money) into a competitive multiplayer game where cheaters can go unchecked? I can't fault anyone for being upset by this because I'd react the same were I in your shoes.

   All I can do at this point is apologize profusely, beg for your forgiveness, and assure you all that I will double down on anti-cheating mechanisms. I've long considered this aspect of the game to be an annoying distraction from the "real" feature work of the game, but I see now that it needs as much dedication and focus as anything else if this game is to be successful. If players can't trust that the other players they're competing against are legitimate, pretty much everything else is moot.

   Note that I will not being going back and rewriting history to account for these recent developments. I say let history be history and look forward to a brighter future. I don't think it's worth anyone's time or energy to dwell on what was or what could have been.

2. Players that have been caught cheating are allowed to remain active in the community - This has long been one of my more controversial stances. I've always considered the cost of keeping these undesirables around (in practice, most leave on their own) to be less than the cost of keeping someone out who is intent on getting in (ban enforcement is a burdensome game of cat and mouse). I'm now coming around on this though and see that the cost of keeping undesirables around is actually higher. Letting cheaters stay both (a) sends the message that I'm lax on cheating and (b) lets toxic people overstay their welcome and negatively influence the community.

3. Ender doesn't care about the game, is lazy, etc. - This is purely a matter of not having the time I once did. When I started bots4, I was single and I was a student. I'm now in a long-term relationship and work a full-time (much more than full-time lately) job. That significantly changes how much leisure time I get in front of the computer.

   What I'm coming around to on this front is that I can't see bots4 as a leisure activity anymore. It started out as a hobby, but I obviously don't have the time for hobbies that I once did. If bots4 is to succeed, it needs more time and energy investment from me and that means making a greater effort to carve out time from my schedule to dedicate to bots4. I'm willing to make comprimises with other parts of my life for this game because its long-term success is important to me.

4. Forum mods are corrupt - This is all based on a hypothetical situation. No information was withheld from me. The moderation team has been nothing but loyal to me over their many years of thankless janitorial service and I have no reason to doubt that they have the game's best interests at heart.

5. Ender is corrupt, accepts money to turn a blind eye, etc. - This one is silly for anyone that actually knows me, but I'll address it anyway. I appreciate the money that comes in through this game and it does pay for an extra meal here and there, but it's ultimately not a significant source of income for me (2.7% in 2014). I'm not in such a great need of money that I'd risk losing everything I've built to make a couple extra bucks.

That was a lot, so to be clear and to summarize, here are the concrete steps I will be taking to address people's concerns:

1. Effective immediately, all of Ville's bots have been locked and reset.

2. Effective immediately, players that have been caught cheating are no longer welcome in our community. I have locked and reset bots known to belong to these players and will continue to do so going forward.

3. Effective immediately, I will return to being active daily. This means, at a minimum, a daily bmail/forum checkup.

4. Coming soon, you can expect to see anti-cheating improvements. Some possibilities include more automated systems and manual tools that game moderators can use to analyze individual cases.

5. Coming soon, you can expect to see more updates. In particular, you can expect self-serve perm star transfers by the end of January and tournaments by the end of February. Yes, you read that correctly. :)

At this point, this is now on me to put my money where my mouth is and to deliver on my promises. Give me a couple months to turn things around and I assure you that you won't be disappointed!

P.S. I attempted to negotiate Benny's money back from Ville, but this was unfortunately an exercise in futility. Highlights of this conversation include Ville starting by admitting to cheating and saying he'd give Benny his money back, but then, upon realizing he wasn't going to be able to talk his way out of the situation, he backpedals and says he didn't cheat and that he's not giving the money back. Lots of frustrating doublespeak and contradictory statements from a morally bankrupt scam artist. Without further adieu, I present the full transcript (with real names and email addresses scrubbed) for maximum transparency.

I read through everything and I must commend you Ender for your work and how you handled this situation. unfortunately there are no winners in this.

My sympathies go out to Benny as he lost a lot of money due to all this.

On a side note...TOURNAMENTS!!!

Handled well, sucks for Benny that, as usual, Ville is all talk.

For him to do this to the community is in itself a tough pill to swallow. That alone shows his character, but to not be a man of honor and keep his word after he adamantly expressed that if his actions brought ill will towards Benny that he'd return the money in full, is just plain despicable.

I sadly can't say I am surprised. He cheated in Bots2 and apparently just carried his ways over to this new game.

I would say I can't fathom how a person(Ville) would scam someone(Benny) who puts so much into a game, but I guess in hindsight I can.

Ville, you are a pathetic person, not for cheating in a game, but because you aren't a man of your word, and men who can't be trusted to follow their word is not a man in my opinion. Sadly, though more hopeful rather, Ender will keep his promise and make every attempt to remove you from this game and to keep you from coming around, you and others (Alan) like you who are a plague to this game that he (Ender) and many of us legitimate players enjoy playing.

tl:dr Go Fuck Yourself Ville.

Just so everyone knows my stance on the matter (I will not go into great detail, as i know you all do not give a shit about a "cheaters" opinion.)

This thread shines some light on my stance, and why I don't feel obligated to do shit.

http://bots4.net/forum/4/2341

Ender did not include all of our context in the conversation (he only choose the bits and pieces that help his case) I also bumped a thread but it was conveniently unbummed after my stuff was locked...

Lets look at some highlights (coming straight from the man himself)

Okay, slight improvement on what I said above. In the cases where bots were paid for using stars or other bots, I actually have the power to reverse those trades. As long as the trade is properly documented (maybe all this confusion is a good reason to have this feature), I can do this. You're shit out of luck if real money was exchanged though.

Hmmm...

Everything Nos said. Plus to Ville: I hope you come around and realize this isn't right. If you have any decency, repay Benny.

I feel sorry for benny. I hope he gets the dispute going quickly (if its not to late) and gets his money back.

4.Forum mods are corrupt - This is all based on a hypothetical situation. No information was withheld from me. The moderation team has been nothing but loyal to me over their many years of thankless janitorial service and I have no reason to doubt that they have the game's best interests at heart.

Ok maybe I took it out of hand a little. Shoegazer found out recently that Ville was auto clicking. He told him stop otherwise he will get kicked from eternal, I still think its bad that he wasn't going to say anything. but you know every one has there own way of doing things and I suppose his approach would be different to everyone elses.

I don't agree with shoe not telling Ender but I do understand it. Ville told me shoe told him off and tried to get him to play legit so it's not as if he condoned it. That being said, remember we are forum moderators, outside the forum we have the same duty as any other player.

Man that's messed up! Hope benny is all well and somehow gets some form of compensation for his huge financial loss. Ville is a scumbag.

I recommend you all read this thread.

http://bots4.net/forum/4/2341

This is Enders policy, not mine. Trade at your own risk.

Ender did not include all of our context in the conversation

You're right, but this wasn't malicious. There were a few instances in our email thread where you replied not to the last email in the thread, but to one before. This had the effect of some of your messages getting dropped when I copy/pasted the whole thing from my last reply. These were just a few small messages where you linked to threads like the one you linked to about my policy on trades involving locked bots. I think I addressed this pretty fully in my final reply to you. It directly quotes the thread you're linking to:

The reason that people are "shit out of luck" in these situations, as the policy thread states, is because of people like you. The bots must be locked. My hands are tied because I can't set the precedent that you can cheat and cash out - it will only further incentivize this bad behavior and make it so that more innocent people get scammed in the future. It was only out of some misguided notion about the quality of your character that I started this conversation with you to give you an opportunity to do the right thing.

I'm going to leave your posts in this thread up because I think they do more harm than good to you by demonstrating your disconnect with any sense of rightness. You're right that you have no obligation to pay Benny back, but every outside observer knows you're scamming him at the end of the day.

Please don't post further though. You are officially banned from this game and are no longer welcome in our community.

Classic Alan. Scumbag

Also the Fishwick bot that posted just to be sure, is that actually Fishwick or a sold bot?

Ender, did you remove the stars that Ville bought for the few people on their accounts relatively recently? Would be nice to see that money wasted

I got a few bot mails asking if fishwick10 is me, that's Ville, sold him the bot a while ago. No idea why he decided that would be the best one to post on

Well reading all this makes me really sad, not only because Benny is a very close friend but also because i once saw Ville as a close friend, That definitely isn't the case now and i absolutely despise the "man".

To Benny, mine and as I'm sure the rest of bots communities thoughts are with you, I urge you to take what ever actions possible to get your money back from this scumbag. But what ever the outcome may be you are a shining light on this game and as you surely already know we all love you.

To Ender, It's nice that you have taken the time and effort to deal through all this and explain in detail your thoughts and plans, I'm just hoping you stay true to your word, cheating is the work of what for me i can only describe as an evil person, for someone to be so ignorant to the hard work, dedication and effort of honest players who spend months and even years of their lives on here is absolutely sickening, and i hope these matters come before any other game updates like for example tournaments, as cheating in my eyes is much more of curse on the game than new weapons or tournaments would be an improvement to the game.

I have also just received a bmail from a bot called The dynasty, im assuming its alan as its his colour but i dont know why he has bmailed me because i have never spoken to the fool before as i want nothing to do with the worthless piece of scum, it reads as follows....

"Its funny. Ed magically has proof that Ville clicked this entire time. Did he never check him? Is Eds system flawed? Everyone else did the work for Ed and all of a sudden he has proof Ville clicked. Weird. Its cute how he tried to bribe ville into giving the money back and wouldnt say anything bad about him.

Its funny, there are 5-6 others that I could out right now that click. I feel peace with the game now though. Trust no one Pothead. I feel as if you dont click no matter if you do or not. Adios.

Love ya Pothead. :)"

Needless to say that went in one ear and out of the other.

My final word is the day that cheating is eradicated, it will be the greatest day in bots history so we don't have to put up with filth like him and ville.

Thanks everyone :) And please don´t worry, I´m not going to be homeless after this.

@Ville: Hope the weed you buy with that money is poisoned :P

Oh don´t forget this bot.

I foresaw all of this happening. That champion axe bot I made.. all part of an elaborate plot to get back at Ville. Thanks for the assist, Fish.

Huge props to Benny for being so insanely understanding about this all. It motivates me that much more to improve the game's anti-cheating measures to ensure no one has to go through what he went through again.

Glad to be of service, Gpof

guess im the new owner of Zion now :)

\o/

Jans again right? also give me a tl;dr version if the name has been made known

Ville.

Busted. SO dissapointing

I never hold against him he cheated in Bots2, as kids do stupid things. But as an adult.. pathetic.
And to fuck someone over a large amount of money. Scum.

Ah. Classic Ville. Still the same as Rapture days. Weak excuse for a human being. Job well done Ender.

Not sure about anybody else but im sure this topic could be closes but thats just me. Moooo

In particular, you can expect self-serve perm star transfers by the end of January and tournaments by the end of February. Yes, you read that correctly.

Oh hey, I made good. \o/

But anyway, yes, agreed that this thread has run its course.

*click*