Ender, could you let us know what level ranges and such there will be for the tournaments? Or if it's even decided how you plan on doing the different divisions? Basically I thought it'd be nice to know in advance so some bot builders can prepare bots at specific levels in preparation for tournaments ahead of time.
But since I brought the subject up of how the level ranges would work, I have two different things in my head, and a mixture of the two. Option A would be to have level ranges like in bots2. Levels 1-10 would be one, 11-20, 21-30 etc. Or Option B, it could be at every individual level, but that wouldn't work too well for the higher levels.
So perhaps individual levels could be the way to go up to a certain level, a number in the 100-150 range I think would work well for now. Maybe it could be changed when there's more bots going into the higher level range too. And then after that number it could change to level ranges for the divisions.
So I guess my questions are, which one of those division placings are you leaning toward? What level ranges, if any, would you most likely use?
|
Bots2 didn't even start until at level 40 if I remember correctly.
In any case, I think the divisions should be based on the bots entering, rather than having a set "bracket" range.
|
I had originally planned on doing something like nos (User Name) suggested where the categories are generated dynamically, but I ended up scrapping that idea and went with static categories instead. Currently I have 21-30, 31-40, ..., 141-150, 150-199, and an "open" 200+ category. The expectation is that these can be changed in the future as needed.
Fun fact: The keen observer will have noticed I said "went with" instead of something like "planning on going with". Tournament scheduling, which includes setting the tournament categories, is already written. :)
|
Sweet that's some good info to know, thanks Ender.
|
So every 10 levels is a category. I hated that about Bots2 tourneys...
|
|
|
There is no definite date set for release.
|
|
|
its enders next BIG project thing is how many little projects till he works on this big one? the answer is how long is a peice of string
|
ender what will the prices be if you win each tourney etc as in bots2 lets face it the thing you got for winning was bloody useless lol
|
I'd guess at trophies & no xp :P
|
I hated the xp "gift" for winning a tourny. A trophy would be a very viable and warranted gift.
|
From the game point of view, the XP gift was actually pretty useful i think. Keeps things moving. Prevents the same winning bots from entering the same cat all the time.
|
Which is exactly why I believe cats shouldn't be set in stone, but rather based on the bots who enter.
|
thing is jans in bots2 i had a level 45 that won about 10 times and yet never leveled due to the tourney there for the xp thing was pointless it didnt help move things along and making sure they couldnt enter same catagory
|
@Nos: that could work too, but the setup of cats needs to be announced in time so people can prepare their bots.
|
@Nos: that could work too, but the setup of cats needs to be announced in time so people can prepare their bots.
That's my whole point. I don't think cats should be announced, and should only be established once all the bots have entered. I think you should have your bot "set up" regardless of what the cats are and the cats should be fluid each month dependent on the bots entering the tournament.
|
Furthermore I really enjoyed Ender's initial idea when we spoke about tournaments on IRC in that he had stated a "bracket" style tournament. I think this would be a great idea. For example, if you use the fluid method of setting up categories (which would really help the bracket style tournament in establishing a set number of contestants for each "category").
So say you have 100 bots enter into the tournament. If you make the "categories" every 2 levels. That would have 5 categories of 20 bots each. Tie breaker for levels on the 20-21(40/41 etc) mark would be broken by the "HoF rank. You then have every bot with the category fight every other bot to establish "ranking" of 1 - 20(within each category). Thus this would establish the brackets. IE 1st vs 20th, 2nd vs 19th, etc.
For a "split breaker" of the final category if there are an odd number of bots that enter (same example with 101 bots). You would then take the 100th & 101st bots, fight them in a best of 3(or even 5) and the winner gets the spot.
|
Announced categories that don't change run the risk of being a little boring I think. If you know for a fact the highest level for cat 9 is 85, you're going to make level 85 answerers, just like everyone else.
|
I don't think cats should be announced, and should only be established once all the bots have entered
I think that would take away a lot of the appeal of tournaments. For some players at least.
A big part of the fun is prepping for a tournament. Getting your bots in the best possible shape, to maximize its chances. And for that you need to know what the cats are.
The cats could vary every (couple of) tournament, but need to be known in advance.
Same with boxing or wrestling; you know what weight class you're competing in. Those aren't decided afterwards, as a surprise
|
Same with boxing or wrestling; you know what weight class you're competing in. Those aren't decided afterwards, as a surprise
the biggest issue I find with the comparison is boxers/wrestlers get old and thus younger people coming up have a chance to beat them. Bots don't have that advantage. When a bots gets older it is still the same as when it is created. Thus stagnate categories creates a stagnate tournament.
|
Thus stagnate categories creates a stagnate tournament.
That's why its a good idea cats should vary every (other) tournament.
But i maintain they should be announced beforehand.
If you don't know whether your bot will be at the top or bottom end of a bracket, you can't prepare. So why bother. No target = no effort = no stakes = less fun.
|
That's why its a good idea cats should vary every (other) tournament.
But i maintain they should be announced beforehand.
If you don't know whether your bot will be at the top or bottom end of a bracket, you can't prepare. So why bother. No target = no effort = no stakes = less fun.
I don't agree with your assumption that my idea would create a less entertaining tournament. Or one that would create a lack of interest. Look at the Final 4 college basketball championship setup. I think the guessing would only lean towards a more exciting finish. And besides your assumption is based on a huge margin of level change(which is likely to only occur still in the top category). I still stand by the fact I think my suggestion would make for the most entertaining tournament over one like was used in Bots2. That set up sucked, lacked vision, and became a stagnant piece of crap.
|
At least we agree the bots2 setup sucked :)
i'm having trouble understanding what you're suggesting in your 17:52:34 post though. i'll have to re-read tomorrow..
|
I want a setup that allows for any bot on any given tournament a chance to win, but also give the best bot within that category the greatest chance to win. because in the end the best bot should win, but that doesn't mean the others should be given the opportunity to win also.
|
Both Nos and Jans have good ideas.
If you want to do on the fly categories. This is one idea. If you have 200 bots enter. Every 10 get split up. Ordered By EXP. So you could have level 80s in two categories, depending if they are closer to 79 or 81.
EXP awards should be given, maybe where you can win 5 in a row and you'd get leveled. Maybe 10.
/end idea..
|
I think the problem with unannounced, dynamically-generated categories is that it's too random. It essentially boils down to "did you build an optimal bot for the level that got picked for the top of the category" vs. "did you build the optimal bot for level X". I personally don't find the former's randomness to be fun and I suspect most others don't either.
And yes, rewards will be in the form of trophies (for both bots and clans, exact reward structures not yet determined) and XP (probably enough to force you out of the category if you're at the top, to keep things fresh).
|
That sounds reasonable ^ :)
I look forward to this instalment into the game and its influence on activity
|
|
|
Did you have a specific reason for bumping this? My thoughts on static vs. dynamic category level ranges haven't really changed since my last post.
|
No, was wondering about the Bracket style tournament format for the different categories. If you thought they were still a possibility down the road?
|
Other formats are certainly possible, bracket-style included, but way off at this point.
|
21
