suggestions

I just wanted to start a little discussion the formula to use to determine durability. In bots2, this was the formula used: (1 / (10 + [STR] - [Required STR])) * 100 (with constraints between 1 and 2.5)

This basically means that the higher str you have over your required amount, the less chance for durability loss. (i think)

Long and short, it works fine enough. Obviously because of the str requirement shields will not take durability so there should be another formula in use. (I don't think weapons with 0 str requirements took durability loss in bots2 either)

Now that that is out of the way, now to the discussion to determine durability loss for bots4. Personally, I think the formula should be determined by INT if there is to be one. Otherwise it could just be a random chance formula, say 1-5% chance for a durability loss per hit landed. (blocks included?)

Thoughts?

Im for random as that adds realism.

I like the idea of some stat playing into it, whether str, dex, or int. It makes it easier to use equipment you have "mastered" (reqs are much lower than your stats) without damaging it. I don't really have an opinion on whether it's str/dex or instead int that determines this. I guess using int would be nice because it would give it another use.

If str or dex is used, you would have to have a formula that includes both or two formula's and you use whichever is higher. Obviously this is because not all gear requires both.

Another reason int formula could be more attractive. But 2 formula's is also viable if the idea sounds better in your head.

Proposal 1:

Armor - str
Weapons - str if reqstr is higher, dex if reqdex is higher
Shields - dex

Proposal 2:

Armor - int
Weapons - int
Shields - int

Where the stat listed is used in place of X:

(1 / (10 + [Your X] - [Required X])) * 100 (with constraints between 1 and 2.5)

Would need a different formula for int I think.

Either something with variables being int and level or have a set limit for durability loss chance per int.

Only problem I can see with this is that leveling bots will have it easy and energy bots will have it hard.

Oh duh yeah, that obviously wouldn't work for int.

Could just use the original formula and include a separate one for shields. Say, 1/4 chance on block? Doesn't need to be anything special because shields aren't that hard to camp for.

Would absorb play a part in durability? Equipment with more absorb will be soaking up more damage, and thus be losing more durability?

@ Draoi
If that were the case shields would be damaged 3+ times per fight, which would be massive for repair costs. And if unique shields are brought in at some point, they'll run out of durability ridiculously fast.

I don't see logically why int should play a role in durability loss. I'm partial to the idea of your gear taking less damage the more battles you fight with it, following the concept of 'mastering' your weapon/armours. But dura loss based on differences in req str/dex and your actual stats seems fine to me as well.

A couple more things, in bots2 you could take damage to armour even when you blocked a hit, which never really made sense to me. Removing this altogether may make camping a bit easier for shielded bots, so maybe the chance of taking armour damage when blocking could be halved or something?

Damn I had something else I wanted to say but forgot what it was.

im for no durability =)

I was just throwing a number out there for shields. But yeh, if unique shields ever come into play it should be viewed differently.

It is interesting that you mention that time concept, I don't know how to implement it but a real time or battles down counter for the gear would be nifty, ie the higher the number the less durability you take.

Along with the durability formula, how did the repair cost formula work? Also, when implemented, it would be advantageous to have bots <20(?) to be excluded from repairs. Money is tight as it is and even a few kudos is lame.

It was armour or weapon cost/3000

So Satan's claw would cost 2220 to repair (666000 cost)

*300

im for no durability =)

Again lol

I want to see durability, it will add to the realism.

And drain my kudos when im not paying full attention, then i'll end up broke and my items will all be fucked.

Im honestly not that against it, i just liked not having to worry about it

You don't have to worry about it for now, lol. That's why we say to enjoy it. =D

oh i am, i'd just like to enjoy it indefinetly =)

Just keep holding onto that dream. ^.^

Oh, i will, maybe if "classes" were introduced i'd be a Monk and not worry about armour and weapons lol

If classes are implemented, I would be a spell-casting knight bard. I suppose durability would still be an issue.

well actually to choose any, i'd be a ninja =)

Armor - str
(1 / (10 + [STR] - [Required STR])) * 100
Weapons - Would have to have something in there if required str/dex was zero(or change all 0 requirements to 10)
(1 / (10 + [STR+DEX] - [Required STR+Required DEX])) * 100
Shields - dex
(1 / (10 + [DEX] - [Required DEX])) * 100

Also something bluei said, blocks would only trigger the shield durability formula and non-blocks the armor formula.

Still keeping with the 2.5-10 restraint, through I am all for lowering it. (if lowered, change the 10 in the formula to w/e the upper limit is)

:(

Why should shields lose durability

I counter with 'why should there be durability at all?'

So we can spend more kudos on shopping?

Real men do not like shopping.

I've been trained to like shopping with my girlfriend through conditional training.

I´m taking about shopping for manly things. Like weapons.

The old formula is negative if you're missing more than 10 stat points for your weapons/armour. So if we are going to be allowed to use weapons and armour that we dont have the stats for then the formula must also take this into account.

First I would like to say that we should be allowed to use any armour/weapon as long as we are able to put it on. It makes builds more interesting and varied as you don't know exactly how much str/dex someone has by looking at their weapons. It will also be harder to judge what armour people are wearing. I'm using armours that I've never bothered about before like The Snappers/Cats Paw/Valkerie Wing etc to boost stats and buy weapons. So if you're willing to shop and do some switching and buying then you can make some interesting builds that have never been done before. Lots of tweaking possibilities and calculations to be done. I find the game more fun to play this way and it will feel like we're going a step backwards if restrictions are implemented again.

Ok so I propose a formula which will also penalize people for missing stats but not to the extent that you will take damage on every hit.

Use the old formula with different constraints:

(1 / (10 + [STR] - [Required STR])) * 100 (with a maximum chance of say 20%)

So if we have say 100 str and use and armour with X str requirement then it will have a Y chance of taking damage:

X Y
80 3.3%
90 5.0%
100 10.0%
105 20.0%
110 20.0%
120 20.0%

The same thing can be done for weapons and shields. Just use total str plus dex minus total required str plus dex.

I was under the impression that ender was planning on enforcing the required stats for gear.

After thinking about it I saw that we don't really need to strictly enforce stat requirements. If you don't have the weapon/armour stats then they will take damage more often and make you weaker in longer fights (most of fights since there's hardly any whores).

On top off that if you make a super redis build and redis from str to say con after getting better weapons and armours your're screwed once those items durabilities hit zero as you're going to be unable to replace them due to having insufficient stats. So the boost will be short lived and not something everyone would want do as they'll have to switch to weaker weapons and armours once the good ones are trashed.

I completely agree Saiyan, but I think it's poor design that the best bot ever would have like 200 str while equipping armours that require 400+ str. If you're going to have stat requirements at all, why should you only enforce them at the equipping stage and not when actually using the gear?

So theoretically, you put on a mega maul that requires 334 str. If I suddenly drop below that str, shouldn't I suddenly become too weak to lift/swing it?

"Im for random as that adds realism."

Actually it's not random in real life. There's just an extreme amount of variables.

Bluei, yes your bot will be more powerful for a little while if you get better armours and weapons and redis str to con. But once you do the redis:

1. Your redis points are gone so you can't do it again.
2. Your weapons/armour will take more damage per fight and it will be quite annoying to keep a steady stream of cash incoming to keep repairing.
3. You'll be unable to equip the same weapons/armour again once they are trashed.
4. Once the weapons/armour are trashed you'll have to switch to weaker ones which could be a whole lot weaker. Will take a lot of planning ahead to stay strong if possible at all.

So I think there are enough disadvantages to using armours/weapons that you dont have the stats for.

Pretty much the only thing this could do to help a player is have that bot win tournies. You pretty much couldn't play it outside of that.

Yep, and to make it even worse we could make weapons/armour take damage while offline. Let it be autorepaired for free though so the bot doesn't get weaker. Will shorten the lifespan of those tourney bots a bit. Once durability hits zero let it stay there.

I think that would be a little unfair. If you take all the effort to level, camp and finally redis a bot you should be safe from having your gear trashed in a matter of days by some guy with a lot of time on his hands. Anyway, I was just referring to the logic of being able to equip items you aren't strong/dextrous enough to use; you're right that the disadvantages are enough that it wouldn't be gamebreaking in any way.

The armour won't be trashed. Just durability reduced to zero. So you'll never be able to attack anyone as then it will start getting trashed. Can still enter and win. tourney

Thanks for the feedback in this thread. This is what I ended up using:

public static function getDamageProbability($item, $str, $dex) {
    if ($item->getReqDex() === null || $item->getReqStr() >= $item->getReqDex()) {
        $difference = $str - $item->getReqStr();
    } else if ($item->getReqStr() === null || $item->getReqDex() > $item->getReqStr()) {
        $difference = $dex - $item->getReqDex();
    }

    if ($difference > 0) {
        return min(0.25, max(0.025, 1 / (10 + $difference)));
    } else {
        return min(0.25, max(0.025, 0.1 + $difference * -0.0025));
    }
}

In short:

• Damage probability can range from 2.5% to 25%.
• Old formula is used if you meet the stats req.
• New formula is used if you don't meet the stats req.
• Shields take damage according to dex.
• Weapons take damage according whichever is higher of the str and dex req.

Think that will work pretty well :) I'm taking a ton of damage per fight. Around 25k average repair costs. Just a couple of things I would maybe change.

1. Your armours shouldn't get damaged if your opponent misses.
2. Your weapons shouldn't get damaged if you miss.

See below what is happening:

widzman annihilated Master Bot with a devastating force with its answerer. (86 damage) damage report: 1164/1250 93 % left

widzman's Thorn Spiked Helmet takes some damage.

Master Bot destructed widzman professionally with its blaster maul. (265 damage) widzman is in reasonable shape.

widzman missed Master Bot.

Master Bot missed widzman.

Master Bot's Corpsemourn takes some damage.

Master Bot's Heraldic Feet takes some damage.

widzman missed Master Bot.

Master Bot missed widzman.

Master Bot's Corpsemourn takes some damage.

Master Bot's blaster maul takes some damage.

widzman eviscerated Master Bot in one smooth motion with its answerer. (67 damage) damage report: 1097/1250 88 % left

widzman's answerer takes some damage.

widzman blocked Master Bot!

Master Bot's Corpsemourn takes some damage.

Master Bot blocked widzman!

widzman's answerer takes some damage.

Master Bot melted widzman into a puddle of liquid metal with its blaster maul. (377 damage) widzman is in bad shape.

Master Bot's Heraldic Head takes some damage.

Master Bot's blaster maul takes some damage.

Yeh, he addressed this in the bug thread I made. Intentional because it was simpler that way.

Could you list the new formula for gear damage on its own without all the coding? It confuses me. Also, do you lose dura if your gear gets damaged in an offline attack?

I must say I'm not crazy about your gear taking more damage if you don't have the req stats. I thought the idea was to encourage the use of items you don't have the stats for, but if your gear is taking damage all the time I doubt anyone would actually go to the effort of doing elaborate gear switches. 25% is massive.

MakJizz destructed Dumpty professionally with its plasma sword. (278 damage) Dumpty is in bad shape.

MakJizz's Crystalized Armour takes some damage.

MakJizz's plasma sword takes some damage.

MakJizz's plasma sword takes some damage.

Dumpty missed MakJizz.

MakJizz sent Dumpty back as metal strips to the workshop with its plasma sword. (204 damage) Dumpty is barely alive.

MakJizz's Behemoth Helmet takes some damage.

MakJizz's plasma sword takes some damage.

MakJizz's plasma sword takes some damage.

that sucks

The first two things get how much you are away from the required amount. Then, If the difference is greater than 0 It returns (1 / (10 + difference)) with contraints 25% and 2.5% If it is less than 0 it returns (.1 + difference * -0.25%)

Also, do you lose dura if your gear gets damaged in an offline attack?

Currently no. Your item condition will go down during an offline attack, but this doesn't carry over between battles and your durability won't go down.

I must say I'm not crazy about your gear taking more damage if you don't have the req stats. I thought the idea was to encourage the use of items you don't have the stats for, but if your gear is taking damage all the time I doubt anyone would actually go to the effort of doing elaborate gear switches. 25% is massive.

25% is the extreme case and you'd have to be 60 points under a requirement to hit it. I always intended for there to be some increased damage penalty for using items without having the reqs. What I did differently than bots2 was not making it damage the item on every hit.

Spawn missed Behemoth.

Spawn's Atmas Wail takes some damage.

Spawn's Helmet of Mystery takes some damage.

Spawn's Thorn Spiked Gloves takes some damage.

Spawn's Behemoth Boots takes some damage.

Spawn's mega maul takes some damage.

I have to say i like it :p

Bet you´re happy Ender fixed it :P

like Hobo pointed out: it's it weird that both weapons get damaged on 1 attempt...?

25% is the extreme case and you'd have to be 60 points under a requirement to hit it. I always intended for there to be some increased damage penalty for using items without having the reqs. What I did differently than bots2 was not making it damage the item on every hit.

But realistically, how many people are going to be doing massive switches? It's a lot of hassle to camp the switch gear, and then you still have to worry about getting attacked while you're camping and losing all your money while having crappy gear on. And even once you get all your gear, once it trashes you have to repeat the process all over again.

If someone is going to all that effort I don't think they should be penalised, even if it isn't as severe as the penalties in bots2. If you put in extra effort you don't deserve to be punished imo. At the very least the frequency of damage should decrease, eg.

0.1 + difference * 0.0015

Or something.

Oh ye, it might also be worth noting that it's harder to do switches considering you can't equip gear from your stash that you don't have the stats for, like you could in bots2.

Btw for weapon damage, is it only the highest requirement that factors in? Eg. if I have a castrator on (164/276 reqs), and my str drops below 164, does my weapon take increased damage or is that only if my dex drops below 276?

like Hobo pointed out: it's it weird that both weapons get damaged on 1 attempt...?

Is this still happening after the June 13th update? It shouldn't be.

If someone is going to all that effort I don't think they should be penalised, even if it isn't as severe as the penalties in bots2. If you put in extra effort you don't deserve to be punished imo. At the very least the frequency of damage should decrease, eg.

0.1 + difference * 0.0015

I'll consider retweaking the formula.

Oh ye, it might also be worth noting that it's harder to do switches considering you can't equip gear from your stash that you don't have the stats for, like you could in bots2.

Isn't that limitation what makes those builds special? You have to rely on redis and/or +str/dex armor.

Btw for weapon damage, is it only the highest requirement that factors in?

Yes, only the highest req. And str if they're the same.