suggestions

I didn't want to do this in the other thread; too many ideas to discuss. This is another idea to change the way clans compete. Bear with me, i barely understand it myself.

Up till now, 'clanscore' has always been 'infinite'. You win a fight, you get 1 or 2 cs. You win 500,000 fights, you get 500,000 or 1,000,000 cs. There's an endless supply of cs.

What would happen if there isn't? What if every month, every clanmember STARTS OFF with say 1000 cs? Whores, regular players; everyone in a clan gets 1000 cs to start with. So every month, all clans have a certain amount of 'cs treasure'. If a clan has 50 members, there's 50k cs to steal from them.

Then the month begins and people start attacking. When you win a fight, you get cs, while your opponent loses cs. This continues until the guy is all out of cs. Then it's off to the next guy, etc. A whole clan could run out of cs, if they suck real bad. At the end of the month, the clan which collected the most cs, wins.

In order for this to work, i think 'diplomacy' has to go. No more hostile or wars. All clans can fight each other. Or not. Up to them.

Pros:
- clanscore becomes a resource, it's no longer infinite, it takes more effort to collect it, let alone keep it
- whoring can continue as before, but its capped
- after all whores have run dry, players can start attacking each other, so it should be an interesting combination of 'cs race' and 'battle'
- new clans no longer need to buy/build whores before they can compete

Cons:
- autoclickers still have a huge advantage, being able to deplete cs from whoreclans at very high speed
- if people dont want to attack other clans, and all the whores are out of cs, the game might stall mid month

Pro/con, depending on your stand..
- whores are no longer a private asset, everyone can attack them. This will lower their value considerably
- it might spark production of whores to a whole new level. Since whores can run out of cs, more are needed.


Unimportant details:
- you only get 1000 cs if you're a member of a clan at the start of a month
- i pulled the number 1000 from my ass, it could be any number
- to prevent people from leaving clans, there should be an opt-out. If checked, your bot doesnt participate in the cs-wars; you dont get 1000 cs, and you cant gain cs from others. You can opt-out at any time, but only rejoin the next month.

Might want to fix it so that people can leave a clan at end of month and not take out all their clanscore, but still start with the clanscore they'd want going into the next month of whatever clan they might want to be in that clan. A lot of people do like to clan hop and whatnot.

I'm not sure the idea, as it stands, wouldn't really encourage people to be ultra-active the first couple days of a month, just to go inactive for most all the rest of the month. That wouldn't be good.

There are certainly other issues like that.

But, I actually like overall concept and wonder if the idea isn't worth exploring more fully though.

"Might want to fix it so that people can leave a clan at end of month and not take out all their clanscore, but still start with the clanscore they'd want going into the next month of whatever clan they might want to be in that clan. A lot of people do like to clan hop and whatnot."

I like it. Provides interesting options for last minute surprises :)


"I'm not sure the idea, as it stands, wouldn't really encourage people to be ultra-active the first couple days of a month, just to go inactive for most all the rest of the month. That wouldn't be good."

Hm, i think the first day of the month, everyone would probably rush to the whores, since there's only so much cs to go around. I'm more worried what would happen AFTER the whores run out, and it's only halfway the month. Would it stall, or would people start attacking each other? Since there's no 'war' anymore, there's no downrape, so that's something people dont have to be afraid of. Only lower or equal bots can attack you.

This idea may have legs, but again I'm not sure it will appeal to the cs slaves.

I'm also struggling to decide if clan size matters. For instance a clan A with 10 members would have 10,000cs & clan B 20 members with 20,000cs. So clan A have to work twice as hard whilst still potentially losing cs. & yes I realised the same applied to B2.

It's just like I said I'm struggling with the logistics here :-/

Yea i'm struggling too. More members = more cs to start with. That's nice. But what if you recruited a bunch of craptacular morons? They'd be raped for their cs. So clans might become (too) selective who they invite/accept. That goes for other games as well though. Not necessarily a bad thing.

But, in your example of two clans:
20 members, 20k cs
10 members, 10k cs

That must be kinda frustrating to start the month with; 10k behind.

There's an interesting choice for both clans though; will they attack whores, and effectively start a race, or will they attack each other? If the smaller clan are good fighters, while the larger clan has a number of fuck ups, it's more effective for the smaller clan to attack the bigger one.

20 members, picking their nose, remaining at 20k
10 members, after 6k from whores, = 16k = still behind!

or

10 members, after stealing 6k from the other clan = 16k
20 members, lost 6k to them = 14k

The same number of fights happened, but with a big difference. And even though those fights probably took longer, the reward is bigger as well.

But yea, would it be appealing to players? I dont know. Some will get very nervous about being raped i guess. That's why there should be an opt-out, so they can chicken out any time they like. Or keep their cs, but hop to another clan.

I wouldn't mind some sort of test server later on after the open beta/release of bots4 with this idea in mind actually. It does have some merits and could work with a bit of tweaking. For one thing, the basic value of 1000 cs per person no matter how big of clan they are in could be reworked to be reflect a constant value that alters with the size of the clan. For example, instead of the 20 members having 20k cs due to each member having 1000 cs each, the 20 members would have 500 cs each to put them on level ground with the 10 member clan with 10k cs. I mean, the 20 players do have a certain advantage with having more people in their clan even if they have the same cs standing due to increased amount of players. And as for ridding of diplomacy Jans, clan score would have to be added as an constant added value after a win rather than a choice between 1 and 2 cs when you have hostile/wars. Each and every person in a clan would then have to have an added xp value added to them that either reflects the added xp from a hostile or war target also(unless of course you would want to get rid of that).

I'm sure I have more to comment on here Jans, but I got a math final tomorrow so I really must study :P

I rather like this idea. It's a fundamental change to how the clan race would work, but then again this is a new game.

One thing that came to mind was making a bot's starting CS value depend on things like ratio. The idea being that a high-ratio bot starts with more CS than a low-ratio bot.

Oooo, feedback from the Ender himself. I do like the idea of cs being valued on ratio but with a limit of course(some people found ways to get like 3000.0+ ratios after all). Perhaps a limit of 250 cs for a bot with ratio 1.0 and under, 500 for 2.0 and under, 750 for 3.0 and under and 1000 cs for 3.0+. The reason why I valued 2.0 ratio and under bots is that it would give incentive for whore makers to create bots that are not as easy to kill as 1 hit whores.

Also, there could be a regenerating cs value with a limit modifier. Say I rape a bot and take 200 of the original 500 cs it has. The cs value could regenerate itself over time(say something like 25-100 cs a day) until it reaches 500 cs again. Or perhaps all 0-200 cs values can be reset to their original value in the middle of the month. I know this idea is about as useful as the "unlimited" cs option we have now but I'm just spewing out ideas to prevent stagnation at the middle/end of the month. Like dragonrose said, there's a lot of potential logistical problems with this idea. Not saying the original system isn't somewhat broken in the way of actual player to player competition, but the option suggested here may not be for everyone. Some people just love raping whores :P

what if clanscore was set up so that you had your current month score (everyone starts at zero like before) and then a cache of cs (previous months total) that people could steal from you to raise their current months score. this way, whores which may gain a little cs from a previous month would run out of available score quickly and people would have to fight real bots in order to gain cs throughout the entire month. The initial month of bots 4 would have to be set up with everyone starting with the same amount of cache.

I kind of like the idea. This way even with whores running out of clanscore, you just have to hunt the ones who took it. So basically the best bots that put in a little effort will win. It also will make clans want to have a larger level spread, that way they can attack every level. It would be a lot more competitive.

I don't think ratio is a good variable to take into account. It's too easy to manipulate things with. A former cs-bot could suddenly become a very valuable whore.

Level seems a better way. The starting amount of cs per month could be 10 * [lvl], or something. A lvl 150 bot starts off with 1500 cs, and a lvl 65 with 650.

But i'm not sure a difference is even necessary. I agree with gpof that's it's nice stimulator for clans to accept members of all kinds of level ranges. This effect is at it's best when every bot, no matter level or ratio, gets the same amount of cs at the first of a month.

(also I kinda like the suggestion of making the amount depend on last month's performance - but that's killing for whores of course, so maybe we shouldn't go there)

why not fine tuning a formula like

Clan Score = 10(Level * (Ratio/10))

Capped at 5000 min of 750

why not fine tuning a formula like

Clan Score = 10(Level * (Ratio/10))

Capped at 5000 min of 750

Nah, for the reasons i mentioned; ratio = bad, and level will cause clans to discriminate against lower level players. Lets not exclude newbies this time.

The idea is to make cs a resource (maybe it should be renamed?), and it shouldnt be abundant, so you have to fight over it. 5000 cs per bot would mean 500,000 cs per (whore)clan. That's hardly scarse.

If something like this would be implemented, i'd opt for a fixed number of cs per clanmember. Simple.

o by the way you know this will mean onlining and targeting stealing will come in to play right?

Ratio should be in the HoF, its a stat and as such should viewable just like your level, win, loss, cs, etc.

It keeps consistency, you do well in a category all of BoTS gets to recognize you.

Sounds like a reply to a different thread?

It was, in other news:

Clans are the shit. I just wish there was a way to balance huge clans v small clans.