suggestions

This is one feature of bots which seems to have been slowly forgotten about over time, accepted as a rule that has always been there. But it's been bothering me lately, hence this post.

Min con was initially introduced in bots2 to discourage players from easy whoring. I mean, it's easier to kill things in one blow than several right? However, in bots4, the only bots that are supposed to be one shotters still are, despite the con rule. Seriously, if you want to make a bot above level 50 that is one-shottable by nearly all bots, all you need to do is keep min con and put on the greatest -con armours you can find and break them all. Voila, 100% guaranteed one-shot bot. It works all the way up to level 300+ and beyond.

Are there any other purposes for min con in bots4? Well, you could say it's helpful to prevent new players from building a 10 base con bot that will be one-shotted and raped repeatedly. However, you know what we did back in the day before the con rule? Yeah, we kind of realised that con was important for fighting and we deleted the bot and restarted all over again. If you really think it's important for a new player to avoid screwing up their bot on the first run through, well you can always give a hint at the top of the workshop to suggest that it might be a good idea for the player to add con, rather than directly forcing them to add it.

Ok then, well what are the benefits to removing the con rule? Firstly, it makes it easier to achieve ridiculous achievements like the 1000 stat trophies and some of the top x trophies. Every point spent in con on the road to those achievements are points wasted, quite frankly. The con rule, ironically enough, also restricts players from building the strongest bot possible at some levels. Eg. Level 150 workshop-freaked holy raptures.

Anyway, that was a bit longer than I intended for it to be, but I'm hoping that by presenting these facts, it will become apparent how useless and hindering the con rule is these days.

Fully agree with removing the minimum con rule.

Sorry Pat but I disagree with you & your reasons for wanting to scrap the con rule.

You are right the initial reason we have a con rule was to try to solve the whoring problem on B2 & on B4 this is circumnavigated by breaking the armour. This is where we diverge my solution to this is to make bots with broken armour unattackable (as in B2).

Furthermore your additional reasoning that it will make achievements easier; some achievements should be hard. How else will you distinguish those players that pro at the game from the casual, occasional players.

So why do we need con? It just makes sense! We are already forced to add str/dex to equip weapons & armour. So as we increase the size of our weapons & weight of armour it is only logical that we would need to have more stamina to wield these upgrades (whether we choose to buy the upgrades or not).

I had a feeling you would disagree Rose :p

Although PvP vs PvE a slightly different topic, I'll argue the point because it is relevant to the con rule. The bottom line is, preventing whoring is a losing battle. Players simply will not fight other players, because what is there to gain? I mean, PvP makes sense in games where it is difficult/impossible to make the best build, so you can theorycraft and try to create a better build. In bots4, if you're experienced enough, you will know or be able to quickly figure out the best bot build at any level, which makes forcing players into PvP nonsensical. In any case, the con rule has not worked to this end, and should not be kept around because it was 'supposed' to prevent whoring. It has failed, and should be removed.

Furthermore your additional reasoning that it will make achievements easier; some achievements should be hard. How else will you distinguish those players that pro at the game from the casual, occasional players.

Adding con will only serve to extend the grind for players with access to ratio whores. I mean no casual player is going to get 1000 of any stat, or even close to it really. In the end the con rule is not there to make those achievements more difficult.

So why do we need con? It just makes sense! We are already forced to add str/dex to equip weapons & armour. So as we increase the size of our weapons & weight of armour it is only logical that we would need to have more stamina to wield these upgrades (whether we choose to buy the upgrades or not).

But you're not forced to add str or dex right? Some people actually want to create low con builds, just like low str or low dex builds. Why should they be stopped by the spectre of whoring prevention?

Although PvP vs PvE a slightly different topic, I'll argue the point because it is relevant to the con rule. The bottom line is, preventing whoring is a losing battle. Players simply will not fight other players, because what is there to gain? I mean, PvP makes sense in games where it is difficult/impossible to make the best build, so you can theorycraft and try to create a better build. In bots4, if you're experienced enough, you will know or be able to quickly figure out the best bot build at any level, which makes forcing players into PvP nonsensical. In any case, the con rule has not worked to this end, and should not be kept around because it was 'supposed' to prevent whoring. It has failed, and should be removed.

I'll argue against removing it too, but not because I really have a point to be made for or against it, but rather a point to be made against your argument. Although I agree completely with your sentiment about PVP vs PVE and the fact no one on this game, regardless of what they attempt to say, will prove otherwise: People simply want the easier route which in this case is not PVP.

However, just because something has failed thus far, doesn't mean you give up on it, scrap it, and completely remove it. It means you either find a different solution(read: perhaps a better solution), or you take the one you have and increase it(read perhaps make the con rule even more strict than it is now).

So if you agree that trying to push for PvP is fruitless, why would you want to enforce the con rule, and in fact make it even stricter?

+1 with Myriad's suggestion but with one suggestion of my own:

Suggestions like this could have a trial period. So new suggestions are added for a 30 day trial period and if it doesn't work out then it can be reverted. It takes time to code/bug test new things but, 98% sure minimal time to revert.

Even a second 'new edition trials server' that is identical to the current setup in every way but new additions are bug tested and trialed before being added to the game. Even to minimize loss of players on the game as it is, this'trials server' could have a select number of people allowed to do the bug testing and play the new server to try the new additions and new people on a monthly rotation.

Sorry to have gone a little off topic but I think it's relevant to the post.

But you're not forced to add str or dex right? Some people actually want to create low con builds, just like low str or low dex builds. Why should they be stopped by the spectre of whoring prevention?

The spectre of whoring prevention is the least of my concerns. I am not a real wars supporter.

Apologies for the thread necro, but after doing some assorted tourney bot testing today, I am convinced that the con rule restricts the best possible tourney build at at least several level ranges. This completely goes against the idea behind the con rule in the first place, and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no convincing reason for continuing to have it in the game.

This is an easy, quick change that would improve the quality of our tourney bots without any downside, so I will again reiterate my desire to see the con rule removed. At the very least, it should become less restrictive, such as the level/3.5 rule in bots2.