suggestions

Hi wiggin I'm sure that you have this on your todo list.

But a surefire way to discourage this is for the attacker to lose energy/xp/kudos. Or simply gain nothing at all a bit like 'special fights' on B2.

Losing xp doesn't seem like a great idea, but energy and/or kudos could work. I support.

I don't know about this. I mean, there are already significant penalties for attacking online bots, that most people who do attack online aren't doing it for any gain but rather to harrass the other player. I don't really see a way around that without it being exploited in some way. For eg, if you, say, removed the 'fight this bot again' link, then bots that don't want to be attacked will just stay online all the time.

I think either there should be a 0 xp, energy and kudos gain OR online attacking made impossible by Ender....

Im with the 0 xp idea, i dont think it should be disallowed by Ender, otherwise some people would be on for 20 hours a day and never get attacked.

The vast majority of players cannot be online all day though so it would probably work well.

Just choose another day to attack a person? Lol, if someone is on 20 hours per day, everyday, then they'd be using an autoclicker or have 2+ people playing the bot. Not everyone can play everyday so there will be opportunities..

bluie afaik there are currently no penalties for onlining. So i was just suggesting further changes to discourage such behaviour for when wiggin comes to do this.

of course some people will continue to online but getting no rewards will certainly stop the more reasonable players.

Agreed ^

I'm sure theres a kudo penalty because if you online someone you get say 100k kudos and the next time you hit them you get ~92k... not that I would know from experience, of course ^^

nah that happens anyway.

You receive a percentage of their kudos, so if you consistently win the actual amount received decreases.

I mean that you receive a % of their kudos that is much higher than 2/3 of the amount you received previously.

This could all be solved with just getting nothing from online attacking.. Lol

Cooldown period of x minutes between online attacks. It shouldn't be removed completely

I like all ur ideas. How about:

0 benefits and limited attacks whilst online if this is easy to feasable. Smth like an attack limit but for online status.

Argh i mean easy to implement*. typing on iphone annoys me.

>> Cooldown period of x minutes between online attacks. It shouldn't be removed completely

I like that idea!

^ Likes the cool down idea.
As the opponents bot is 'online' they can just fight back for a longer time. So double the time it takes to fight them and add a cool down to allow the other person enough time to 'save the kudos'.

Maybe like a 2-3 minute cooldown period?

If you start restricting attacks while online it is a slippery slop to not being able to attack bots online.

The only penalty at the moment for online attacking is that you only receive 1/15 of the defender's kudos for a win instead of the usual 1/3.

As for making online attacks not give any reward, the problem with this is that it would create a haven for energy/kudos. I realize that online attacking is annoying though so I will consider ways of making it less lucrative. The cooldown period idea sounds good to me right now. You won't be invulnerable from attacks while online, but it will at least be more difficult to be DoS'd.

"Your bot hangs its head in shame. Online attacking is considered very dishonorable and so you must wait another x seconds before battling."

:)

or you could simply change the ability to keep attacking/training while getting attacked.

Maybe not simple programing wise, but everywhere else it is.

Another thought is an independant online attack limit that can be capped at 10 every 48 hours. Doesn't have to be 10, but you get my drift.

Online Attack Limit + Cooldown = Solution?

I say who cares? Its part of the game.

>I say who cares? Its part of the game.

Ignorance is bliss, eh? I like the cooldown timer for online attacks, as far as fight limits, I feel it could go either way.

Online attacking as part of the game? Yes, it's there and you can do it but it's annoying as hell, you have to admit.. I think that a cooldown timer would be a great thing to add (:

See, this is why I absolutely hate Bots4.

Onlining : Its a part of the game, don't suck, and people won't do it. Get over it

Clans : Clan score, whores, and jans. That's what people loved.

All the extra crap to the game : Like, the notifications, the fight timer, the floating title. All useless that help out noobs.

When i started, I played with 2 of my friends, for about a week. They quit, I kept going. Played all by myself for a year or so. I got to lvl 92 and had shock axes. Yes, shock axes. I spent sometime reading up and some camping. Met some cool people and long story short, I am not a guy who likes to make the whores. Likes cs. Likes perfect bots. And making clans. When the basics of Bots2 are gone, it takes it out for all of the people who have played for a long time.

Then we get noobs, who spam the damn forums with stupid ideas and Ender seriously thinks about them and wants to put them in the game. How about we get the basics still of the game, Like tournaments and whatever else needs to be done BEFORE we start changing the basis of the game.

We can't cater to the noobs and the kids who are going to quit in a month. I mean come on, when do fight counters and other shit need to be put in before other stuff THAT IS IMPORTANT needs to be coded.

We also get people who repeat the same damn ideas/bugs over and over. No wonder why ender doesn't post on every thread. Its fucking annoying.

/Ends rant.

Alan, we appreciate you bringing this up, and I'd like to say that I completely agree with you on just about everything you said. As far as returning bots4 back to bots2, I think Ender said that he wants to take the game in a different direction, and the current status of things is just temporary. I miss cs a lot, and I miss clan tournaments a lot as well, but we need to face the fact that it's over. Whatever direction bots4 goes, I'll be there to support it, because that's what a good player does.

Alan I am neither a n00b nor a short term player. I am however a trainer.

Whilst I welcome offline attacks, online attacking severely impinges on my enjoyment of the game. Hence the suggestion.

See, this is why I absolutely hate Bots4.

well dont play it then.

^ Haha, I must agree. If you don't like a game.... don't play it??

how hard is it to NOT do something you dont like?

My opinion

Been playing bots since 2003/2004, and my observation is that i would rather have a bigger playerbase than not. Bots2 was around many years, it was good and all, but the playerbase sucked donkeyballs to be honest.

I am all in for changes that makes this game gets a bigger playerbase, may it be good or bad changes, i dont care, aslong as there are players/bots active i all good.

And about the 1337vsNoob mark, a 1337 player will always be 1337. And some "Nooobs" (hate that word lol)will eventually become 1337. It takes alot of learning/planing in this game. The more "Noobs" we have, the more 1337 players we will get.. see my point?

Oh and on topic, the cooldown idea is nice, aslong as it will not be to long haha :)

/Smeagol

^ 100% of what Smeagol said

same, and yeah i was playin bots 2 around the same period/ little bit before aswell i think during school hours, but i think bots 4 has taken bots 2 out into the yard and slapped it around a bit, i love it =)

I think the problem you might not understand Alan.. and which I have been trying to point out on some of my posts:

Ender is the prophet of CHANGE. There are alot of veterans and noobs alike who want change. Lets take it like that: floR didn't want much change/had time for change. Ender wants much change. Therefore no matter what you want or not want, change will occur. Therefore the more suggestion you have the more likely the game will change towards your favor. THATS WHAT AN OPEN BETA is.. in most games anyway.

Its not actually just a few veterans that want change. The KEY PEOPLE/veteran want it to happen. Therefore expect this game to change slow or fast I dont know but the new owner of this game intends it to happen.

As for this thread you all know I support it already ^^

You do know that floR didn't want to play bots2. So that's why he didn't want to work on it?

If we are going to frown on onlining, then lets have things autoclickers, auto distribute stuff in the workshop, auto campers. Things that find out if you will automatically win against an opponent. The games gets to easy. See?

Lol... Just... Lol..

@Alan; apples & oranges

It's not about making the game easier, it's about discouraging players to *obstruct* other players, intentionally or not. Ender's ddos comparison is accurate; if someone wanted to, he could make it impossible for another player to do any fighting or training at all.

I agree it's a valid game tactic which should remain possible; but the attackee should have the advantage.

The attackee is who is giving the attack mr. jans.

Attackee and attacker, attackee being the recipient, jans is correct :P

Very good, now heres a cookie =) jokes haha

om nom nom lol

Ah haha! this might be a bit off topic... but GTA San Andreas is da bomb!! set my x box up so i could play it =)

No Mr Alan, i wrote exactly what i meant to say ;)

@Bum, a bit? I don't see how much more you could have gotten off topic :P

well its not an online game so it is a way of discouraging online attacking =)

~Hobo

Alan "If we are going to frown on onlining, then lets have things autoclickers, auto distribute stuff in the workshop, auto campers. Things that find out if you will automatically win against an opponent. The games gets to easy. See?"

No I really have no clue what you are on about. How is discouraging people from onlining anolagous to an autoclicker? All of those things you mentioned are automating a process.

I don't want automation I just want to be left alone to train peacefully. Rape me as much as you want when I'm offline.

Its a multi-player game, you can't go crying when they interact with you. Such it up or go play solitaire.

I repeat again, restricting online attacks is a slippery slope to an area that will create a lot heat both ways. It's fine where it is at right now.

^ what he said

>Its a multi-player game, you can't go crying when they interact with you. Such it up or go play solitaire.

Agreed.

I mean suck, instead of such. but ya'll get it.

>I mean suck, instead of such. but ya'll get it.

Hmm... What? I've been playing solitaire for 7 hours. =D =D =D

While I pretty strongly disagree with the manner in which its being argued (lighten up guys), I've been thinking about what's been said about leaving online attacking as it is.

I do feel like I sort of just came into this thread, saw some people saying they don't like online attacks, and immediately catered to that crowd. After thinking about it some more though, I'm wondering how much of that would be like catering to people that want banks, that don't want equipment to take damage, that want kudos to be easier to obtain, that want training bots to be easier to beat, that want to be able to buy things they can't equip yet, etc. To me, these are all things that are short-term changes that take out some of the challenge and don't necessarily improve the game in the long run.

I understand that onlining is annoying because its effectively a DoS attack, but so is having your corpse camped on a PvP server in WoW. You don't have the option to be on a PvE server in bots4, but you do have the option to be clanless. I suspect much of the online attacking is due to energy? Even in bots2, onlining was very, very rarely a problem for me. I think some of it may also be coming from people that just don't know how annoying it is to be onlined. Extending the message from just "your opponent is online now" to something like "your opponent is online now...online attacking is generally frowned upon" may help to deter this in that case.

There's a gray area in between "that is just part of playing an online game" and "that is just general asshatery griefing" and I'm not sure where onlining in bots4 really falls. I don't have a decision on this topic at this point, but I just wanted to say that I am considering this from both sides. I'd still like to hear what others think. And fyi, I find it much easier to process arguments when they're made without the emotion-fueled anger/vitriol.

i agree with you.

i was onlined 100 times by spawn though and im not even in a clan. he onlines people just to annoy them and it sucks. because i have to sit there and wait for him to finish onlining me or log off and not play. but either way its part of the game and we just have to deal with it.

>While I pretty strongly disagree with the manner in which its being argued (lighten up guys)

I thought this was a pretty civil thread?


>that want to be able to buy things they can't equip yet, etc.

I would like to see that made possible, not to make the game easier, but to add a factor to gameplay. Like i said in other threads, it's fun to be able to equip stuff you can't handle yet. It's something for players to discover. Anyway, that's another topic.

Equip stuff you can't handle yet? What about level 1 with behemoth gear? I support buying armor and weapons you can't use yet but not to equip them.

Let's not get into that here ok? My bad :)
> /4/909

Honestly, when someone tries to online me. I tend to pay attention very much to the game for the next 5 minutes so they always receive the 'this target is already fighting' message. 99% of the time, this will deter them.

Because the person being onlined has the advantage in clicking (timer countdown) vs the person that is doing it (doesn't have it and has to go through the fight menu) someone who generally cares about continuous fights can handle a fight or two interruption.

I agree that there is the rare case where someone is really mad at you for whatever reason or feels very strongly about wanting to online people for whatever reason; but really, if someone is mad at you to continually online you you probably deserved it. And how many cases are there where someone goes out of their way to just do it for funzies and the lols?

I honestly believe this got blown way out of proportion and it is fine how it is.

'probably deserved it'

Just a quick note about that, this can entail sending them a bmail and rudely telling them to stop. I myself have onlined people for being dumb in bmails.

the thing about me being onlined 100 times, was i had never even spoke to this person. they only did it for fun and somehow they still beat me clicking even when i clicked the link as soon as it popped up. it got very annoying

click faster + use the countdown timer = win

i do? i just said i did. and somehow who still went through the fight list and was able to fight me before i could train

> but really, if someone is mad at you to continually online you you probably deserved it

I think that's pretty much how I feel about it too. Not so much that it was necessarily deserved, but that it was at the very least somehow provoked and not completely out of the blue. Kind of like those statistics where murders/kidnappings are usually done by a close relative or friend.

But then again, as Behemoth points out, some of those cases unfortunately seem to be true, random griefing.

How can you even attempt to create a remedy for a situation this rare with further ramifications in other areas?

And in all honestly, how do we know that he didn't provoke him?

because i dont bmail people unless i know them from bots2? and the only person i really talk to is voxymaus on irc.

> but really, if someone is mad at you to continually online you you probably deserved it

really? so whem I was being onlined in B2 because 'players' didn't want me to overtake wiggin I deserved it.

Face it fellows some people are just arses through & through.

I have at no time said that I want onlining to be stopped, I just want it to not yield any rewards.

Okay, so we are pulling out so rare of cases and using them to try to stereotype all online attacks? How does that make any sense.

Rules of being Online
1. don't send them mail
2. pay attention for 2-5minutes and click quickly to discourage them

And in your case rose, that type of asshattery is an issue where an admin would need to step in (this would be rare) and handle it in a case by case issue.

Another note, I don't see why ender should waste precious coding time on something an issue that is such small potatoes.

What happened to the idea of differing fight lengths between attacker and attackee?

Doesn't have to be anything major. Even a few extra seconds would make a huge difference. This doesn't stop onlining but it does reduce the frustration of being onlined.

>Another note, I don't see why ender should waste precious coding time on something an issue that is such small potatoes.

QFT

Just one thing:

Ender your thinking if the person thinks logically. Spawn has attacked me- I dont know him never attacked him, never talked to nothing. He just does it to people randomly, without regards to anything.

So yes theres a possibility you did not deserve it just to throw it out there. Maybe in other instances it might be as you said, but all the instances that people talk about here about Spawn I'm almost certain that it was not provoked.

Spawn did it to me as well, wouldn't normally annoy me but as I was having a short lunch break at work it was irritating.

me to, a yonk and a half ago, but i was same lvl as him at the time, 75 or something and he attacked me till he lvled up?

I only -ever- online attack people who online myself, or another of my bots. And then i attack them til rape limit finishes whether they are online or not

Can´t we all just get along?