questions

Don't know if this has been asked yet, but is it ever going to be possible to equip items you don't have the stats for from your stash? If you want to have a 'fighting set' and a 'training set' for example, you can't switch between the two, because you'll get stuck using the gear with less +str and you won't be able to reequip the higher +str stuff.

I realise that preventing this is a form of cheating prevention, but tbh if someone really wanted to whore a bot, they would use crappy gear rather than gear they don't have the stats for. It just seems that this is limiting the versatility of the stash, and stars by association.

i to was thinkin bout something like that, say you can equip something say 15 points above what you have(stats) but you can only use it to train?

just an idea but yeah.

Keep a Facemask of Horror or whatever it is called :) Dont know it if helps but it could for now.

maybe it'd help if you used it to wipe your ass? hopefully its not spikey... but from the name im guessing your not in for the best toilet brake of your life..

A strangely passive aggressive response considering I was offering a temporary solution

Probably not. I like that items like Steel Grip and Face of Horror have these specialized uses. It's also a small advantage for those more familiar with the intricacies of the game to be able to do certain builds that others can't and I'm aiming for more ability to differentiate builds.

I agree, let's keep it like it has always been. No need to change anything. If too many changes are made then it wouldn't be bots now would it?

> It's also a small advantage for those more familiar with the intricacies of the game to be able to do certain builds that others can't and I'm aiming for more ability to differentiate builds.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean by this, Ender. This rule isn't suddenly allowing people to buy gear in advance (i.e. equipping +str/dex gear to buy stuff you ordinarily wouldn't have the stats for), people have always done that and always will. What it is doing, however, is preventing you from switching between gear that you would have the stats for when your whole set is equipped.

Eg. If I had 392 str to equip the 420 gear, and I wanted to swap to an int set, I would need to have extra stash space for steel grip/face of horror/troll shoe just so I can reequip my fighting set again. It just seems to me that this only benefits people with more stars than others, with no real tactical purpose.

-A strangely passive aggressive response

i am passive aggressive incarnate.

You're right that that particular tactic is made easier by stars, but I'm okay with that. Others can wait a few more levels to get their stats up and/or camp the items in order.

well thats the point isn't it? we pay for the stars and we get stash space? and then with that the ability to sling on a few bits of armour from the stash you just want to buy a weapon or whatever that your not that far from

It seems like everyone's missing the point. Stars allow you the opportunity to keep +str gear so you can buy armours in advance, yeah no doubt. That's not what this thread is about though. It's the fact that you can't switch between gear that you WOULD have the stats for if you equipped a whole set of armour.

Case in point:
392 str with heraldic head/feet, corpsemourn, shade gloves (420 after bonuses)
I want to switch to an int suit to level quicker.
I equip helmet/boots of mystery, atma's wail and behemoth gloves (377 str after bonuses)
Now if I want to switch back to my fighting set I need steel grip/troll shoe/etc. in my stash. Now, IF I could equip gear I didn't have the stats for, my fighting set goes back on without a hitch. With the current rule, I can't do any of this if I don't have 7/8 stars or more.

Basically what I'm saying is there is limited versatility if you want to change your gear around, especially if your fighting set has a lot of +str bonuses. Eh I guess it is the advantage of having 8 stars versus 5 or whatever, which will generate more money for the game, but aside from that I don't see any use in it. If that's your intention, far be it from me to persuade you otherwise.

well donate and get stars and stash space and you can do all that? just depends on how mush stash you need/want? so i think your missng the point..

I think you're missing the point, what he's trying to say is that you should be able to switch to an armour in your stash that you don't have the stats for (But obviously did at some point).

i get what he is saying. but if you dont donate then you only have one stash space and wow that is really versatile, you can do alot with that.

I don't have a problem with donating, but if I had to donate $80 for a feature which I had in bots2 for $50, it would make me think twice.

Regardless of its validity, it is the question nonetheless.

Well donate then

"You're right that that particular tactic is made easier by stars, but I'm okay with that. Others can wait a few more levels to get their stats up and/or camp the items in order" End qoute

The idea has been considered and rejected

I don't believe that Ender truly understood what I'm trying to say, so I'll wait for him to reply to this thread before anyone considers it closed.

well, it probably wont happen because its been suggested before, i think i may even have suggested it too at some point..

N bigboobies [46]

2011-04-21 22:36:08
[7 hours ago]
I think you're missing the point, what he's trying to say is that you should be able to switch to an armour in your stash that you don't have the stats for (But obviously did at some point).
 
This sums it up what the OP meant. Because you have the armor in ur stash you had the the stats for it at some point thus you arent cheating.

Mi General Dandimite Brukout. Wa Guan Bumboclot Cuss-cuss ya Quattie, Dehya.

I think you can look at this in two ways. You could look at it as me being greedy by giving people with stars an advantage over people without stars, thus encouraging the purchase of stars. Not much I can do about that. How I hope it is viewed instead is that I'm just giving a bonus to people with stars as a token of gratitude for their support.

Too much of this game is already a level playing field. If there's something complicated you can do to get your next weapon a few levels earlier than the next guy, that's something I'd really like to have in the game and is the main reason I don't want to change this. We need more differentiation and the fact that it is enabled by having stars is really a side issue.

Maybe you still think I'm missing your point, but I think we're talking about the same thing. You're saying, "A isn't possible without doing B" and I'm saying "B is available for people that have stars (or a lot of time), so actually can do A".

like i said i believe but with a less intelligent/undiplomatic approach

"If there's something complicated you can do to get your next weapon a few levels earlier than the next guy, that's something I'd really like to have in the game"

Sorry, maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm still not sure how this relates to being able to equip items in your stash without you having the stats for them. It seems like you're talking about <buying> items you don't have stats for.

I think it makes sense.

You can't walk through fire to get to your fire suit without getting burned, the fact that you wouldn't get burned if you had worn the fire suit doesn't make any difference.

Whether it makes sense or not is another discussion. One could argue that it doesn't make sense that you can equip an item when you use the bonuses that the item gives to equip said item; it doesn't work that way in Diablo II for example. But the matter is that I'm not clear on what Ender is saying when he justifies the rule on the basis of it allowing players to buy (?) gear ahead of other players.

> Sorry, maybe I'm an idiot, but I'm still not sure how this relates to being able to equip items in your stash without you having the stats for them. It seems like you're talking about <buying> items you don't have stats for.

Consider player A and player B. Player A has been around the game a long time and knows the ins and outs of how things work. Player B is new and not really familiar with the more intricate game mechanics. They both go for a build that requires an exact set of equipment to get the +str/+dex right for their items. Player A knows about items like Steel Grip and Face of Horror that will make it possible to achieve this build, but player B does not. Player A therefore gets the build at a slightly earlier level, giving a small advantage over player B.

A contrived example, but that's the idea I'm try to get at.

But how does the inability to equip items from your stash give an advantage to someone like player A? That is the reason for disallowing this in the first place, right, to give an advantage to certain players?

Say player A has 5 stars. He's redistributing and trying to replace all his gear with a fighting set. His 6 stash spaces are filled with those 2x weapons and 4 armours. But he can't equip them because of the rule. So he has to camp steel grip/face of horror etc. just so he can put that gear on.

Take player B, he doesn't have any stars. Assuming he has one of the fighting set items in his stash, he has to a) camp the +str gear and then b) camp his actual gear. So preventing him from equipping that one item is going to do bugger all, because he'd need to camp the +str gear first before he could even buy the rest of his fighting set. Player A is screwed over more even though he has more stars.

tl;dr: I don't see how preventing players from equipping gear from their stash that they don't have the stats for benefits those with stars more than others.

In addition, and this is just my personal opinion, if I had 8 stars and I wanted to have a full fighting set on with a full training set in my stash, I would prefer the remaining 3 stash spaces to be filled with spare gear rather than +str gear just so I can switch between the two sets.

Btw, I feel I should apologise for the length of this discussion (and post!) Ender. I realise you have important things to do/implement, but I feel this is an important topic that some people would be interested in.

Hmm yeah, I know it's a pain to have to have/camp +str gear to do certain switches, but I'm really okay with that. If it was effortless for everyone to do these switches, the effort of obtaining the +str gear in the first place would be for nothing. This is just my design philosophy which you maybe don't agree with. I'd prefer a game where there's a subset of players able to do something others can't over one where everyone is able to get the perfect, optimal setup with ease. At that point it just becomes a game of dice. I can remember hearing of players in closed beta (no stars) camping their items in a certain order in order to do a certain build. This was further enabled by the fact that there's currently no equipment damage, but you get the idea. That's the kind of stuff that I want to see more of, not the other direction.

And I'm fine with discussing this. :) It has indeed been brought up before, though maybe more in the context of purchasing rather than equipping (I think my argument applies to both cases). I just hope you don't mind me being so against the idea!

heh, I just like being able to use gear right now that is red. :)

So what if I'm not really supposed to use this gear for another 10 levels? :)

I hope you keep it the way it is, far more options, it would be nice if we don't get more damage on the red items.

Ok Ender, point taken, I see there's no moving you :p Hopefully there will be a better way of differentiating builds in future that doesn't involve equipping red gear :)

Point and match?

(everyone understand that i dont really care, im just a jerk that way)

well if ender makes armor damage anything like in bots2 people will stop using red armor once armor damage is implemented because it will get damaged every hit and break in no time. then the person using red armor will be fucked because their defense will be lowered greatly and they will have to change their build completely depending on what armors they are using. so i guess enjoy it will you can.