questions

Hi wigginypoos

I've heard rumours that clan sizes will be increasing in August.

Is this true? & if not could you make it so?

An increase to 30 or even 25 would be greatly appreciated :)

An increase to 50 would be even nicer. Plus add some more clan ranks? Maybe get the clan ranks up from 5 to 10? Or even 7 or 8 would be nice. :)

Maybe increase the limit in small steps per month, to see what it does?

I feel 40 would be a nice max, but that number is based on absolutely nothing.

I think 40 would also be a great number.

40 for now is too much. I think the clan size needs to be increased gradually when more players come.

25 is good for August, considering the current energy difference between the top 4-10 vs the top 1-3 is very vast, maxing the clan sizes so fast would only increase the power of the top3 rather than overall.

I guess in the spirit of competition that is a good way to look at it, but in the spirit of players who don't want to compete against there friends rather than starting another clan they just refrain from joining one in the first place.

Depends what do you want to cater for.

Do you want to cater for veterans from bots2 so they can all bunch together vs the new players who dont have any affiliations and see that they cannot win against the vets quit the game and then the game slowly dies?

The top energy players are still more or less all veterans from bots2. I dont really see any new faces in that spot. Until you do you do not want to increase the max clan size too much.

I am sorry but I will take Jans and gr33n for an example. If the clan size increased gr33n will probably take Jans into his clan. Essentially this is great and nice for gr33n and Jans, but do they really need to be clan tagged so badly? Or do you want to cater for the greater good that it will promote competition?

Essentially I still think if you make a sister clan for train bots/semi slackers it will work out fine. Its still quite almost impossible to find enough unique main players to fill up two clans - I should know that I own after all 3 clans.

Or look it at this way. Do you really think the top 10 clans have a need of an additional 200 slots for 200 unique players? I dont think so. The top 10 isnt firstly fully maxed, meaning not every top 10 clan has a clan size of 20 players to start of. Secondly theres not 200 unique players even if every current top 10 clan was maxed. Even two of the top 2 clans are owned more or less by one person.

• Heartbreak and Vine clan is one person.
• gradol is one person

Yes its great two have two bots in your own clan each. That means you can have 20 unique players with 2 bots so a total of 40 slots. But I think at this moment we should not cater to players with two bots at the current time, until our player base is at least dramatically increased.

Adding 5 slots to each clan will give you more than enough slots at this current moment.

agreed. for the longevity of the game: do not increase it, or only little.

Clan sizes will almost definitely be staying at 20.

That being said, I do understand the reasons people want larger clans: bigger playing group, less selectivity, social members don't use valuable space, etc. I have an idea of how I want to address these issues while not changing the clan size (yes, this is really possible). I don't really want to say more about it now though because I haven't worked out all the details yet. So just know that I'm aware of the issues that small clan sizes are creating and I do plan to do something about them.

And as the one who makes the final decisions around here, I must wonder where these rumors start as this is the first I've heard. :)

irc probably...

maybe you saying you know of the issues with clan size or are looking into it? it might spark a rumour :)

Resets, email, etc. all coming in august. :)

Just put that with what people wanting clan size added to.

wtf is alan taking about?

hurray @ clan sizes staying at 20

Still think there should be an inactive spot for members can sit and chill and not always have to participate every month.

I have to agree with Sera. It's amazing what the small clan size has done so far, something people are taking for granted. With such a small player base, (admit it, it is still very small) competition on some level actually exists. I remember blue (inb4 not blue) during, i dunno, 07/08. The player base there was I think pretty much the same as what we have now here on BOTS4, but competition there was virtually non-existent. Acedia (acedia ftw) won every month hands down without even trying. Acedia's individual top CSers had more clanscore than entire top ten clans. Acedia's whore clans got top ten spots for fuck's sake. Because there was space for almost all the dedicated players in one clan, they ended up bundling together and destroying the server. Which in no way detracts from how awesome Acedia was, but, you get the picture. Primacy destroys servers.

If we increase clan sizes, people will end up joining big, established clans. This will probably tend to push the server towards a bicameral, "two big clans" setup, where everyone belongs to one of the top two clans, and promising new talent is quickly assimilated by whoever can woo to them first. I can imagine a big clan being fun, but, in the interest of preserving this game as a whole, I'd have to say keep the cap at twenty, at least for the time being.

Still think there should be an inactive spot for members can sit and chill and not always have to participate every month.

Outside the clan.

reading your story neps, i get all enthousiastic about reducing clan size even further :P

Hooray for small clans. \o/

I would like to see clan size increased eventually if not immediately, but only because that would give me an excuse to make some more bots.

The reason why I want big clans is because I want to keep all of my bots in one place. Eventually I might have 50 or a hundred, who knows. With the small clan sizes like they are now I don't think I will be making very many bots like I didn in bots 2. Its just not worth it like it was.

The only way I can see keeping the clan sizes at 20 while making it appear like they are bigger is to restrict the number of bots each person can have in a clan to 1. If everybody is only allowed to have 1 bot then there can be 20 different people in a clan. Problem solved.

This is one reason why I don't like real wars. Its too limiting and it removes a lot of the things that made bots 2 fun. Such as leveling, building clans and a bunch of other things.

Trying to get energy as pretty much the only thing to do will start to get boring eventually when there is nothing else to serve as a diversion. Oh well, it is what it is I guess.

I'd have to agree though that in the interest of the game as it is now, the clan size should be kept as small as possible to promote growth. Maybe once the actual player base is higher (can't go off bot count considering I alone have 9 and I know there are others with double that).

I'm more on the edge of this "topic".

Pros of having Big clans - More Power - More friends - More Help from clan mates

Cons - Less "Full" clans - Less overall competition

I personally like seeing mass groups of people doing things. Like strategy games, I don't send one strong troop, I send as many as I possibly can. On the other-hand like Neps said, Acedia was TOO powerful. It was an amazing site, but just to powerful.

If clans were increased, I think it should be to 30.
@ FTP, I don't think there should be "spots" to keep inactive members. If anything, there should be an "opt out" button at the end of each month. If you opt out, your entire clan doesn't gain energy that month.

I see any where from 40 to maybe 80 bots on line at any given time now. Figuring that some guys are proly using 2 to 5 bots then that means that there has to be maybe 50 or so hard core or people that could be considered regular bots players in the game.

Is limiting clan size and making other limitations to the game going to grow the game and make more people join up? Is it going to increase the targets people can fight? I don't know the answer to that one.

Bots to me seems to be a nitch game and either you love it or you hate it. People come and go. If an increase from 50 regulars to 100 or 200 or more regulars can be quaranteed then fine but I don't know how that could be done. Bots 4 is pretty much the same as bots 2 was and unless there are major game play changes and improvements I really don't see how the base number of regular playes can be increased much.

With all of that said, my point is to open the game up more don't restrict it so much. Having large clans seems to entice people to want to fill a clans ranks so they then go and build hundreds of bots to fill up these big clans. More bots means more targets to fight.

Maybe more people will join up as time goes along and perhaps in 4 or 5 years there will be a million bots in the game that can be attacked. Right now I don't see many people wanting to waste time building a bunch of 20 bot whore clans. So the number of targets will be on the low side for the foreseeable future. I can see the flame posts coming but thats just my opinion...

I also believe that Ender has done a great job with the game and he deserves a lot a praise. Maybe trying different things out to see how they work out would be a better policy then not wanting to try anything new or different out.

whats new and whats different?

20 clan size is new. Not wanting to change is now different?

Essentially I think the perfect size is at this moment would be 25ish, simply because the top 3 clans are somewhat close in energy and full and the top 4-10 are not lacking players/almost also full, but they lack more dedicated players. Meaning its not because too much of a lack of players but more that those players were to begin with, 'average' for a lack of word. If the top 4-10 were at an average clan size of 10 players I wouldnt suggest a raise of 5 cap per clan, but the average size is clans rank 4-10 is 15 members which isnt too bad actually.

But I dont see raising the clan size towards 40+ anywhere soon.

Alan made a nice suggestion above by saying an opt out button should be instituted and a clan can opt out of the monthly energy race if it wants to. Thats a good idea.

Go a bit further and have an opt in/out button when the clan is first created. Have different types of clans. Have the 20 bot energy clans, these clans will compete in the monthly race. Have the option to be a training clan, a storage clan, a socializing clan, a whore clan and on and on. The possibilities are many. If the clan isn't an energy clan then it DOES NOT get counted in the monthly race but it can still be fought for energy.

All the bots in these different clans could quit their clan if they want to take part in the energy war. Have the training clans be able to do nothing except level up and train by only being allowed to fight the train bots. It would add more to the game...

too early to specialize the game, you'd have less targets for the energy players, and essentially thats still somewhat the majority focus of the game of I dare say most players.

Also take Saiyenz for example. hes sitting at lvl 140. Until someone comes along whos not a level bot and turns on energy and is willing to join a clan he prolly will be even older than hes now :P

I know fighting higher level bots for me is easily 2x the xp/hr. I dont want to be limited to just training bots personally

Though I agree an opt-out/in option could allow for a nice function, if you have the option to opt-out then your clan shouldn't gain energy at all that month completely removing you from the race.

If anything, there should be an "opt out" button at the end of each month. If you opt out, your entire clan doesn't gain energy that month.

That's what I said.

hmmz disappointing reply wiggin. An increase of 5 would've been sweet.

Oh well I await the outcome of your mysterious post ...

To be honest... This whole energy and clan system destroys any fun playing bots for me, really.

It has definitely altered the games dynamic appeal of clans for me.

why is that Off?

I'll have to 2nd that one Off...

It puts limitations on the game as it once was...

i think i have more fun just going for wins rather then energy now too

i think i have more fun just going for loses and losing energy rather then gaining energy now too. mainly because as a training / leveling bot that wants to be in a clan there isn't anything else to do. :(

Make it 25

Indeed, we want to have room for Ferox :)

Wouldn't more smaller clans increase competitiveness and give newcomers a chance to start out a decent clan with a few friends?

Yes if you dont factor other variables.

Clan size being small allows more clans and probably for some players to more easily socially connect, however mostly veterans of the game will bunch together, in bots2 clans being big, it allowed both vets and newbs to be together.

In this alot of the newbs are left out as most clans prefer experienced players. If u go for a job interview you got a person who has 7 years of experience vs an entry university student who you take if same wages since theres no variable to wages in this game? =)

Talking about experience, in bots2 players simply need to have.. time. Since theres energy and real wars you require both time and at least some experience or someone guiding you. The guiding you part is explained above. Since its somewhat hard to attain or at least harder than it was in bots2, theres more players quitting earlier, due to them not getting into big clans and therefore expore to older experienced players. Since most players first bot will thus suck, they find themselves loosing all the time and thats generally a big factor of new players quitting...

exposure* and some other iphone typos damn small keyboards. =)

The only way I can see keeping the clan sizes at 20 while making it appear >like they are bigger is to restrict the number of bots each person can >have in a clan to 1. If everybody is only allowed to have 1 bot then there >can be 20 different people in a clan. Problem solved.

can't see how that would be possible, as long as you can only have one bot pr user.

but anyway, a solution on the small clans vs. the socializing and other stuff in bigger clans could be the concept of fractions, where clans could bundle up in different fractions (still being individual clans!) and then you could have a fraction high-score and other stuff.

even the vets were newbs once....the people who like the game will stick with it the others will fall by the wayside

Tourneys will make the game a little more interesting.

gr33n [60]

Indeed, we want to have room for Ferox :)

Exactly!

Atreides currently has a mix of new & old players, each with only one bot. All are active.

I just want a little bit more space :'(

Same i had a biggish/similar post about solo clans and my clan size in month May posted too.. But any more tham 25 imo at his moment will overpower the top clans :)

So ill agree to 25 but anything beyond that will unbalance things as the rest of the top 10 clans arent fully filled yet and opening up the top clans means its more likely for others to join the top ones first..

You want 25 now, you'll want 30 in a few months, then 40, 50, 100, etc.

Personally i dont want clans of 100 ever again. I think 40 would be a good max, you know, eventually.

You presume to know too much.

I have no thoughts as to the future size in further months to come, apart from the fact that how the game evolves will dictate future clan sizes.

I'm with Jans, I don't think the clan size should ever top 40. This will hopefully require the game to remain competitive.

it would help to have the clan sizes increased a little as some people have multiple bots who are all capable of getting a lot of score. But on the other hand if its increased a bit now then we will want more and more.

Its a bit of a catch 22 for clan owners!

Vote for 30 ..no more :)50 to much :/

I like the idea of being limited to one "main" bot and no more for a clan. If you want to use two, then you must sacrifice and not have that extra "real" person.

I like the idea of being limited to one "main" bot and no more for a clan. If you want to use two, then you must sacrifice and not have that extra "real" person.

Makes more sense than twenty people on three bots each CSing against twenty people on three bots each.

or maybe need more space as old clan member cant join the clan and help anymore which is a bummer aint it

sure it is, but then again, he can join rapture or atreides and make them faster.

more good small clans > less good big clans

hehe true true

or maybe have a sort of alliance of 2-3 clans were u get 10% of energy from the other clans and vice versa if u understand that didnt think it through properly but in my head sounded great hehe

It would always be in favor of the clan that was scoring less.