suggestions

Many fighting bots avoid fighting bots with high ratios because of the additional experience this gives them. They end up leveling before they wanted to and having to change builds, recamp new equipment, and so on.

The purpose of this change would be to reduce leveling speed for those bots that want to, through the use of -INT gear (which is fairly typical for fighting bots anyway).

It would also make people more willing to participate in clan heists.

2nd

What would be the result of allowing it to actually go negative? No exp gained at all?

If something bad like that then I do like this idea.

!! FOR

Yes please.

This further encourages bots to be of the same build, the same level, and the same boring that I thought we were aiming to change. I like the 5 stat cap (I'm assuming all stats are capped at 5?) because it does force some change by having people eventually level.

Agree with Kernob. The game may stagnate. People will make lvl30 perfect bots and stay there forever. Lots of easy targets and nobody else can attack them since everyone else is a higher level. So everyone will have to make even lower level bots to compete especially if the Hiesting is introduced as suggested in the other thread.

/saiyan

I agree that people should be forced to level at some point to avoid making things become stale. I have no intention of allowing bots to not gain exp at all and thus not level. This would only reduce leveling speed for fighting bots by a factor of 5. As it stands, people simply will not fight real bots because of this issue.

If it turns out that this leads to people just sitting at 130 and never having to change build, then that can be addressed when it happens. I don't think that will happen though.

It won't be 130, it will be 60-80 that people sit at.

The details don't matter. My point is that this isn't the last game design change I will ever make. The system right now has a flaw and this would help fix it. This may create further flaws that need to be addressed...and they will, if/when the time comes.

If you have a better solution for the current flaw that has less future potential flaws, I'm all ears.

Energy stealing from each other. You take a percentage of energy from the person who has energy instead of this 18-24 thing. This somewhat forces everyone to level up, and it becomes remarkably difficult to whore out. Possible, but much more difficult. Give an attacker bonus to taking energy, like the current system has.

My only concern with that is that it could make it too hard to hold onto a large amount of energy. But as I say, that can be addressed if necessary. It has potential and I'll think about it.

I still think it could be done in addition to this idea, not in replacement of, however.

Reducing min base int to 1 would be the perfect solution for what is currently going on, this would allow 5x more fights against high ratio enemy targets. This would really start the real wars everybody was talking about. This idea, along with your second idea (on the second thread) to stimulate the clan race with various daily/weekly bonuses should give this game a fresh breeze of air

Good idea i guess, but maybe it should be capped at 2? That would mean 2.5 times less xp, might perhaps be enough? It would indeed allow me to do more real attacks

maybe even coupled with a simpeler version of some idea i spoke of earlier: getting ~40 energy (losing ~20) against a bot with positive energy and just 20/10 against a negative energy bot (a whore perhaps) would make things even better :D

No skipper it would not be an ultimate solution, since it's still about xp/energy ratio, and that is still better against 'whores' effectively making this fix a reduction of symptoms but no solution. I really like enders other idea about clan battles or heists (whatever you want to call it) though :)

my imagination shaped it like this: clan heist + int reduced to 1-2 and attack on same ip = 0 energy, 0 xp and no fight history recording.. Of course there will be people circumventing the IP thing, but it wont be that cost efficient anymore, since you already have plenty of targets to fight with, it wont be just low ratio bots but EVERYONE :D

I'm against this one, I would like my bot to level.

Eventually, as the game gets older and more bots get made and level there should be targets.

This is something I'm doing with my Umbrella Corporation. I've given the popular range of level a few FAIR targets, as in they are int bots who have decent builds and equipment

int bots wont be affected as you probably didn't notice. only the lower part of the int will be changed from 5 to 1. 40 INT bots will level the same way they forever did

I wasn't worried about my int bots...

You'd still be able to level if you want. You just wouldn't be able to stack -INT gear as heavily. A tradeoff, if you will.

This sounds like a good improvement, nothing too drastic but improves playability/fun.

getting ~40 energy (losing ~20) against a bot with positive energy and just 20/10 against a negative energy bot (a whore perhaps) would make things even better :D

Also +1 for this.

getting ~40 energy (losing ~20) against a bot with positive energy and just 20/10 against a negative energy bot (a whore perhaps) would make things even better :D

I like this as well.

^I also like this. It would even further give bonus to those of us that attack decent bots.

I personally think you should just change it to 1. If it becomes a "problem" or something, then change it back. Like lots of little "ideas", just change it to that. Then if it needs to be revamped then cool.

Perfect ideas that have no flaws are not that fun. Exploiting flaws for a couple of hours is fun to talk about and do. This is such a minor change that it should of been a post on the home page. "Intelligence total is now set to 1 instead of 5."

Just my two cents.
-Alan

You'd still be able to level if you want. You just wouldn't be able to stack -INT gear as heavily. A tradeoff, if you will.

I'd just like to point out that just about any piece of -int gear will get you really close to 1(if not all).

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I LIKE leveling my bot. I just do NOT like how you are currently punished for leveling.

Creative solution, props, but I feel like it isn't the right one.

Also, after I thought more about this. How is this going to change much? Instead of 1-2 rapes 60-75 leveling you up, it'll be 5-10. You will STILL level faster than the players that just sit and let energy accumulate.

If anything, it'll widen the gap between -int and +int bots. :|

Also it is a nerf! -int bots will always roll a 1 when fighting. So what happens when two -int bots fight each other? The one with the lowest ID gets the first hit? (and anyone with any int will always hit first)

Also it is a nerf! -int bots will always roll a 1 when fighting. So what happens when two -int bots fight each other? The one with the lowest ID gets the first hit? (and anyone with any int will always hit first)

Agree with Draoi. The 40 from positive is a brilliant idea, the -int one I'm still against though.

Thumbs up for both reducing minimal int and energy change.

Energy change would fix this energy system a bit, maybe even I would like it more ^^ And reducing int would really help a lot for scorer bots

looks like my thread brought something to the game after all, other than flaming

*offtopic open*

And you want an achievement for this, I'm pretty sure ^^

*offtopic closed*

i dont think you need that, when people come around lvl 120, and they will soon with 5 int, the leveling will slow down dramatically

Though it might slow down more at higher levels (for obvious reasons), he's focused on the game as a whole as it stands now. Considering the player base is more lower level, then this will make for a very nice addition for now and the down sides can be addressed latter on.

Good idea i guess, but maybe it should be capped at 2? That would mean 2.5 times less xp, might perhaps be enough? It would indeed allow me to do more real attacks

maybe even coupled with a simpeler version of some idea i spoke of earlier: getting ~40 energy (losing ~20) against a bot with positive energy and just 20/10 against a negative energy bot (a whore perhaps) would make things even better :D

theres still a problem, the method rivan is using. lower lvl positive energy bots to attack higher bots.

^ stop flaming rivan and Eternal.

Yeah, I thought we had moved past that. Apparently not.......

You'd still be able to level if you want. You just wouldn't be able to stack -INT gear as heavily. A tradeoff, if you will.

I don't quite understand this. Can you elaborate more?

It's hard enough to level up now as it is. Will this slowdown and effect leveling bots? (Which I am and have no intention of being in the energy wars...)

just means that the lowest possible number for int is changed from 5 to 1?

This is silly. In one place, we are saying we don't want things to get boring, yet then over here, we want bots to not level and stay the same so things are simple and boring.

So, which is it?

@ The Pirate - No it won't affect your levelling bots as they will have much more than 5 int. This change only affects bots with less than 5 int, so your int is capped at 1 rather than 5. If you want to level while keeping low int, it will be much harder so you may have to sacrifice some -int gear - that's the tradeoff.

I guess I understand. If you are using the (-)int gear it will be able to go to 1 instead of 5? But the (+)int gear can still be stacked for those that want a lot of int to level? Will a new bot still start with 10 int or will it be less? And I'm assuming that you will be able to redis down to 5 int as well?

What does Ender mean by "You just wouldn't be able to stack -INT gear as heavily. A tradeoff, if you will." (Maybe his use of -INT is whats confusing? I'm thinking that this change will have NO change to leveling / int bots. Thats cool. :)

I guess I'll just have to wait and see what its like. As long as it doesn't effect leveling as it is now. :) Thanks.

Reason's people make final bots. 80 answerers, 132 souls, etc.

People want to keep that bot in the place it is. It's a goal, not a 1000 fight bot. You want to spend a couple of months trying it out, etc.

I make a motion to set int to a minimum of 1. All in order say +1, all opposed say -1. :D

Another potential issue that will arise from this is that if this somehow(coupled with the other change) encourages people to attack 'real' bots, eventually most people's ratio's will be .8-2.0 so you will see an even bigger slowdown in leveling speed.

People should learn to embrace and accept change! it's not as scary as you might think!

But yeah, people put a lot of effort into making final builds, why shouldn't they be allowed to use them for longer than you can currently?

+1

@ Alan End of Days post isnt flaming rivan and eternal. its to look at the first two parts, which someone else had stated and then what he said in reply to that

Trying it for a few months won't hurt.

Learn to quote EndOfDays. Now you posted my message as your own.

Embrace change, I guess.

In the armor suggestion, we want to add armors so things don't get stale, and here, slow things down so they do. Seriously, minimum all stats up to 10, regardless of any negative gear - force leveling to force change.

Seriously, minimum all stats up to 10, regardless of any negative gear - force leveling to force change.

Wow, that's a seriously ignorant suggestion.....

It's exaggerated, but on track. How are bots ever going to get to the levels of 80 and 90 if they gain such little experience from fights?

Nos you can not call people ignorant just because their take on the issue is diametrically opposed to yours. We need a variety of viewpoints, as from those a healthy debate & possibly great ideas may spring up.

Maybe use 1000 (or 500?) achievement points to change the minimum int to a number from 1-10? At the start of every month it resets to a minimum of 5 again so people will have to change it every month. This way everyone is happy and can tweak their bots to their needs.

Thats not too bad of an idea, depending however what the other achievement points unlocks are, cause getting achievement points is not that easy that we can abuse is that much..

Looks good to me too Saiyanz :)

Nos you can not call people ignorant just because their take on the issue is diametrically opposed to yours. We need a variety of viewpoints, as from those a healthy debate & possibly great ideas may spring up.

Perhaps you should read the entire comment. I didn't once call him ignorant.

Maybe use 1000 (or 500?) achievement points to change the minimum int to a number from 1-10? At the start of every month it resets to a minimum of 5 again so people will have to change it every month. This way everyone is happy and can tweak their bots to their needs.

Although I like this style of thinking, I do prefer Ender's overall course of making it "system wide".

That's* not too bad of an idea, depending however what the other achievement points unlocks are, cause getting achievement points is not that easy that we can abuse is that much..

I would have to agree, though people might have an abundance at the moment for the obvious reason of Ender not implementing the "achievement store" (for lack of a better term), I would have to state that the rate at which you "recieve" achievement points will slow drastically. Minus the donors of course, because they get points(Platinum Achievement Points) for each star purchased.

Just look at http://bots4.net/profile/142/TheCause achievement points he has one of the highest, without any star purchases. 2.5k isnt that much and once you gotten all the bronze and the training bot ones theres not many which you can get constantly apart from the monthly ones, and even those generally would mean a top 10 finish in something for it to be substantial.

Can make it 100 or so achievement points to adjust the min int then. Just throwing it out there.

Sera, you're forgetting about resets ;) Depending on how many resets are allowed within a period of time, people may be able to rack up a thousand points a day if they're dedicated enough. I guess that's a topic for another thread though.

I'm not sure about this, when I read the suggestion my first impression was that I really liked it, but the more I think about it the less I like it. It's a creative suggestion and I can visualize how it would change things, but reading through all the comments I feel more and more inclined to suggest that everyone SHOULD level and have to make decisions about changing their build or adding con or something.

I know how frustrating or annoying it is to spend the time making a strong energy-scoring bot at a low level where you can maximize targets and then having to worry through each rape about the rate of experience you are gaining, ruining your build... But surely that is the price you should have to pay for making such a low level energy-scoring bot? The rewards are having a great amount of targets but that must come at a price surely.

I mean there's so many builds and weapons that just aren't going to get used or made and it will be the same builds at the same levels time after time that get made for energy-scoring.

I feel really like... I know how it's annoying to level up when you don't want to, but I think in the long run the variety and spread of levels in the active player base would be much better off without this change.

Reset doesnt delete all your past achievements, you just have a change to do the achievements you have done, for example I missed out on Herb Derp so I can go do it.

You can only more or less try to redo the multiple achievements, how many of those are not monthly achievements and can be easily done? And generally speaking anything beyond a Silver is not really that much worth :P