suggestions

Yes I've been over this 100 times before as have others but I thought since it's a new year and everything is getting quite boring to watch on here, I'd bring it up again but with a twist. This time I thought of a diplomacy system where pretty much everyone is happy. I'm sure people will figure out problems with it but here goes:

Each clan gets 3-5 spots for relations with other clans
You can set them at hostile or friendly
If both clans pick hostile, they start a war. All energy gain is the same as the current system.
If only one clan picks hostile and the other chooses nothing, energy gain is halved but you can still attack them.
If one is hostile and the other is friendly, it results in neutral and no energy is gained from attacking each other.
If both clans are friendly it can result in losing energy (or maybe just have the same null result, whichever is easier).
Clan size would likely have to go up (not like it mattes to large clans but the current treasury system is pretty stupid anyway, one clan can have 100 members for a tourney with 1 day or less of treasury and others only have 20-30 members and only 20 top members result in clan energy stats anyway. If things were more like bots2 with just hard clan limits this wouldn't be a thing. Clan settings for relations can be changed say, every 6-24 hours or so. Whatever works good.

Now the purpose of doing this? Well, it's simple. Clans with dumpers can still attack their dumpers BUT clans that want to attack whores or other bots can do that instead. It's just a super complicated way of letting people other than people who use dumpers to attack their own bots too. Why? Because generally speaking making whores or other bots now is futile. If you make one and clan them, all that happens is that a clan other than yours attacks them first and you get nothing out of it. There is no incentive to make them. There is no incentive to play the game other than using dumpers because the other clans can just attack the whores too. Example being say I make 10 whores and clan them but if I ever try using them a guy from Apex just uses them instead. Well there was 0 point in me making them then yes?

The idea is that this would combine the more hardcore players with armies of dumpers and the casual players who would rather just use one bot and attack bots that are available to them rather than having to make 100 dumpers to support themselves or something similar. This would also result in probably way more activity as newer players and older players that don't want to spend a crapton of hours playing and camping items would be able to play again. The other thing is that since whore clans generate less energy this would generally work out in the favor of dumper-using clans anyway.

So there you have it, dumper people are happy, casual people are happy, Apex would probably still win regardless but the non-insane people can play the game again and have fun. We could try it out for a trial month and call the monthly competition null and void in it to test it out even. I'm sure this is more of a "new server" kinda idea to Ender though.

Enjoy crapping over my idea :)

- Zal

CRAP

I like the idea of being able to protect the energy on your whores. I would prefer to play on my main bot, as the idea of dumping to me is antithetical to the game, but as you say, someone else will just take the energy so there is no point.

Great example of this is the ziz bots, which belong to Lusitania, but we still have to fight Apex for the energy, even though they have their own protected energy sources to use, which we can't compete with them for.

What happens between two clans with no affiliation? Sounds like attacking anything outside of hostile vs hostile would be worse off which severely limits targets for any kind of scoring (dumpers or attacking).

I do like the way only the top 20 bots contribute to monthly energy, and wouldn't like to see that change.

A change that could be done for tourney bots is allowing a toggle either within the bot settings or a clan rank which stops the bot from acquiring energy from any sources and removes the cost of upkeep from the clan. This toggle would need to be set to a 31-day lockout or something similar.

I thought since it's a new year and everything is getting quite boring to watch on here, I'd bring it up again but with a twist

Seem to say this every time you post but most enjoy the game, you are the only one who moans so much on the forums yet logs on so regularly.

Why? Because generally speaking making whores or other bots now is futile. If you make one and clan them, all that happens is that a clan other than yours attacks them first and you get nothing out of it. There is no incentive to make them. There is no incentive to play the game other than using dumpers because the other clans can just attack the whores too. Example being say I make 10 whores and clan them but if I ever try using them a guy from Apex just uses them instead. Well there was 0 point in me making them then yes?

Absurd to say there is no incentive to making whores, if the top clan see you as a threat to the race they will probably target them and wouldn't be too bothered otherwise and that's probably why they are the top clan. If someone is draining all the whores you built there are plenty of options available, you can build so many that they are a nightmare to drain completely or take note of whoever is taking the energy and try to take it before their usual playtime, or heaven forbid take the time to build some nice dumpers/uprapers and issue solved.

Going back to how bots2 was would suck IMO not to mention the overhaul it would require, especially to cover up your fabricated false issue with the current system.

The issue has nothing to do with number of whores or dumpers atm its 1 clan has near 24/7 scoring coverage and noone else is even close or willing to click as much as them. You want to win? click more links conversation over

I second what Kev wrote there. Other clans than Apex just lack the clicking power.

I will continue to reiterate that this game has everything to do with how much time you are willing to spend playing it.

Regardless of the system, the people with more time will always be the winner here.

So unless you own an army of whores yourself, you can never get more than 50% energy per fight? Genuinely seems like a nerf to new players, rather than a buff. Unless they join your clan and hit your whores I guess which is maybe the motivation here. Quite a lot of change to the game needed too just to find out that you won't win a month in that format either ;)

Whereas a month where everyone can hit everything for the same energy as each other would be much better. Vote War month!

This guy shilling his own thread smh

Granted I just said "CRAP" without any constructive criticism, however this didn't work great in bots2 due to the same constraints. It didn't promote what you seem to want it to, which is more inclusiveness. If anything it promotes the opposite.

All the opposing clans have to do is set to friendly and you gain nothing. And you wanting to increase clan size only further exacerbates that by allowing clans to group all their bots into a single clan and friendly the "top clans" minus their own.

I feel your idea will literally have the opposite desire which would pigeon people into a specific clan with the most resources.

The way it is now, as people have their own resources, they can go where they want and still perform at the same level, regardless.

And like Fish stated, your idea might have worked at the onset of the game, but that's not the system we have and it would require a lot of time to get to where you want to see it go, and I can't say it would create a healthy game overall.

I'll try to explain a bit more if possible here.

I like the idea of being able to protect the energy on your whores. I would prefer to play on my main bot, as the idea of dumping to me is antithetical to the game, but as you say, someone else will just take the energy so there is no point.

Indeed, it's ok to have dumpers energy protected but not whores/other bots for some reason. Real wars for whores but dumpers allow you to hoard all you want. That is the crux of the problem overall. To expect a new player to even get a bot to level 100, nevermind to then tell them to participate in the clan race they'll need to make 20-100+ dumpers to contribute because nobody is bothering clanning whores etc. is a bit much. I'm trying to speak from what a new/casual inclinded older player would see if they came across the game.

What happens between two clans with no affiliation? Sounds like attacking anything outside of hostile vs hostile would be worse off which severely limits targets for any kind of scoring (dumpers or attacking).

Well since 90% of players on this game don't attack other clans other than dumpers/whore clans I don't see why this would be that big of deal. Unaffiliated clans would be 0 energy gained between each other, but since you can change diplomacies you could switch them out and attack whoever you want. There would have to be a trade off to have people not attack the bots you have clanned or else there would be no sense in doing this idea anyway. It may as well be the same. What truly "severly" limits targets on this game is that between 70-90% of the clans are dumper clans. This system would be no different to any dumper using clan other than changing diplomacies every so often.

Seem to say this every time you post but most enjoy the game, you are the only one who moans so much on the forums yet logs on so regularly.

If you ignore all the quitting threads and general dissatisfaction from quite a number of people over the past 3-4 months then sure, everyone is enjoying the game, whatever you say Zach. nods head

Absurd to say there is no incentive to making whores, if the top clan see you as a threat to the race they will probably target them and wouldn't be too bothered otherwise and that's probably why they are the top clan. If someone is draining all the whores you built there are plenty of options available, you can build so many that they are a nightmare to drain completely or take note of whoever is taking the energy and try to take it before their usual playtime, or heaven forbid take the time to build some nice dumpers/uprapers and issue solved. Going back to how bots2 was would suck IMO not to mention the overhaul it would require, especially to cover up your fabricated false issue with the current system.

Yes there is the mass creation meethod of whore making that does effect the clan race but nobody is going to do it if it just benefits a clan not of their choosing. That's just a giant waste of time otherwise. If you had 500 whores right now you'd probably have them all declanned or not gaining energy just to piss off Lusitinia so don't be hypocritical.

I'm just using a bot2 method to try and fix something that may or may not be broken. it's a gamble I know. No system is ever perfect. I'm just advocating for a more casual way of play that also doesn't effect the older playuers on the game, no idea why you're so against everything I state. You never suggest a fucking thing worth shit to make the game better because you think it's already perfect. Well, that's your opinion -_- If you don't have any better ideas then I don't know why you bother posting in these threads.

So unless you own an army of whores yourself, you can never get more than 50% energy per fight? Genuinely seems like a nerf to new players, rather than a buff. Unless they join your clan and hit your whores I guess which is maybe the motivation here. Quite a lot of change to the game needed too just to find out that you won't win a month in that format either ;) Whereas a month where everyone can hit everything for the same energy as each other would be much better. Vote War month!

Building an army of whores is a much less daunting task than making an army of dumpers. Plus I'm sure whore clan owners would probably be willing to go to war with other clans. The idea is that if one or more people already have or make the whore clans then everyone in the clan can then attack them. So if I had 100 level 50s-60s or something then a new level 50 player could attack them, not just me. And if someone just wanted to play solo I could see them easily making 100 or so for their own use fairly fast. Nothing will beat the 60 EPH dumper strat or dumpers overall in this method, it would just be an option for people with less time/resources to play on a regular basis.

All the opposing clans have to do is set to friendly and you gain nothing. And you wanting to increase clan size only further exacerbates that by allowing clans to group all their bots into a single clan and friendly the "top clans" minus their own.

I could see Apex/Lustinia going friendly against each other so they don't attack each others bots (which has been a sore point in Apex vs. Strung Out) but in all likelihood all their other spots would be against their own dumper clans to keep gaining energy. This would likely reduce attacks on big clans with no effect on their dumping efforts.

THe clan size thing is just an idea. I thought that having a maximum amount of bots would just make things easier rather the weird "hey it's tourney time so let's put 100 bots in the clan but have 30-50 on a regular basis" we have now.

I feel your idea will literally have the opposite desire which would pigeon people into a specific clan with the most resources.

People have already pigeon holed themselves into a specific clan with the most resources, it's called Apex. I'm trying to do something slightly different is all, Apex's dominance would probably continue regardless.

The way it is now, as people have their own resources, they can go where they want and still perform at the same level, regardless.

They can take their resources and do what they want in this system too. It would actually increase the amount of things people could do rather than decrease the amount. If you look at the online list at pretty much any time it's all just people windumping or dumping/piddling around on their high level bots. There's not exactly an awful lot else to do.

And like Fish stated, your idea might have worked at the onset of the game, but that's not the system we have and it would require a lot of time to get to where you want to see it go, and I can't say it would create a healthy game overall.

I did say it could be a new server kind of idea. It might be good, might be bad, but it'd probably be better than nothing at all.

Anyway, this won't likely be implemented anyway so I have no idea why I wrote all of this anyway lol.

PS: If you guys say I complain too much then why don't you come up with some damn ideas? I'd love to hear something out of your mouths other than "Zal is bitching again" -_- I didn't even complain at all in my original post, it was focused purely on the idea at hand so I have no idea where the complaining thing came from.

I'll try to explain a bit more if possible here.

Further explanation isn't necessary. New ideas are. Not ones that didn't work before and will work even less now.

Well since 90% of players on this game don't attack other clans other than dumpers/whore clans I don't see why this would be that big of deal. Unaffiliated clans would be 0 energy gained between each other, but since you can change diplomacies you could switch them out and attack whoever you want. There would have to be a trade off to have people not attack the bots you have clanned or else there would be no sense in doing this idea anyway. It may as well be the same. What truly "severly" limits targets on this game is that between 70-90% of the clans are dumper clans. This system would be no different to any dumper using clan other than changing diplomacies every so often.

Which is why I preferred Fish's idea. It was more practical and was only a single one-month off thing a year.

If you ignore all the quitting threads and general dissatisfaction from quite a number of people over the past 3-4 months then sure, everyone is enjoying the game, whatever you say Zach. nods head

This game has always had a revolving door of people.

I'm just using a bot2 method to try and fix something that may or may not be broken. it's a gamble I know. No system is ever perfect. I'm just advocating for a more casual way of play that also doesn't effect the older playuers on the game, no idea why you're so against everything I state. You never suggest a fucking thing worth shit to make the game better because you think it's already perfect. Well, that's your opinion -_- If you don't have any better ideas then I don't know why you bother posting in these threads.

The issue is that this bots2 method doesn't work in bots2, as I stated. I know, we used it to make competition even less for the exact reasons I stated.

I could see Apex/Lustinia going friendly against each other so they don't attack each others bots (which has been a sore point in Apex vs. Strung Out) but in all likelihood all their other spots would be against their own dumper clans to keep gaining energy. This would likely reduce attacks on big clans with no effect on their dumping efforts.

THe clan size thing is just an idea. I thought that having a maximum amount of bots would just make things easier rather the weird "hey it's tourney time so let's put 100 bots in the clan but have 30-50 on a regular basis" we have now.

I think you missed my point here Zal. If I take all the "whores" that Apex has, and clan them all in a single clan, I can then set that clan to "Hostile" to Apex and "Friendly" to others (Say Top 4 clans ). It was the exact same thing on bots2.

Which is why I also coupled it with your increased bots clan size. Because your main idea won't work/go over well with the current system of everyone having their own resources. IE Apex can't "War" every clan that a person has with dumpers.

People have already pigeon holed themselves into a specific clan with the most resources, it's called Apex. I'm trying to do something slightly different is all, Apex's dominance would probably continue regardless.

People generally follow the path of least resistance. And Apex is just the new kid, that has lasted longer than others before them. The game has gone through several instances of clans "dominating" the clan race and others whining about it.

I did say it could be a new server kind of idea. It might be good, might be bad, but it'd probably be better than nothing at all.

New server does nothing for the current server but split the already small player base.

PS: I also included your post so I could bump my word count.

Also, you complain too much and "Zal is bithcing again"

I won't make you do two back-and-forths, I don't disagree on everything, but

PS: If you guys say I complain too much then why don't you come up with some damn ideas? I'd love to hear something out of your mouths other than "Zal is bitching again"

I literally linked to my own recent suggestion that I think achieves your intended goals better than yours, with less downsides, and you've just completely ignored it.

Zal has a lot of good points.
Dumpers are just whores that no-one else can attack for energy.
Members of Apex don't want any changes because they have already done the work, any changes to the current system means they have to put in more work, even if the current system is detrimental to the health of the game.
Forcing players to make 100+ personal sources of energy is insane, how do you expect anyone to stick around when they find out that the only way to compete in the game is to make dozens of bots to attack yourself with? You don't even get to use your main bot except for 1000 attacks a day, and even that is optional.

The new player experience is abysmal. The game won't bring in new players if the experience continues to be like this, and that is before you realize asking people for $10usd for a single stash space in 2024 is going to drive even more potential players away.
The game doesn't just need an update to the scoring meta it needs changes to the monetization as well as the buff system either being removed or reworked.

You don't even get to use your main bot except for 1000 attacks a day, and even that is optional.

This implies only scoring with a DE3 buff, which equates to over 1.2m energy. There are not many people who even do that much.

Forcing players to make 100+ personal sources of energy is insane

You definitely do not need that much, you're being absurd. 100 bots at 60eph is over 4m energy in a month. Only 3 people in this game have ever utilized that many resources for themselves in a month.

I literally linked to my own recent suggestion that I think achieves your intended goals better than yours, with less downsides, and you've just completely ignored it.

I was going to talk about it but I just typed 1,000+ words it seemed. I looked at your suggestion before. I'm not 100% sure how it'd go either. There would be lots more energy available, that's for sure but something bugs me about it. There would be millions upon millions of energy available and a new meta would probably happen because of it. If for example all my old whores were to be available for energy, that by itself would probably add 15 million to the energy per month. Along with everyone else's? Probably 100 million+. I think it'd be a bit overkill in the sense that there would be too much energy available. There would also not be much incentive to make clans other than to gain energy since there would be no point in making dumper/whore clans and doing the treasury or maintaining them at all if the bots just gain energy regardless if they're in a clan or not (assuming this happened every month, not just the one off amount you suggest).

It would be a lot easier to put in place though. Just turn on energy for all bots, boom, done (unless they opt out like you said). It's a simple idea at least.

The idea I had here is to stabilize the other clans in the race and make it more interesting. Having something to come on and do every day vs. logging on and seeing all your targets drained and logging off (maybe forever) is the main point. Yes you can currently make dumpers and have energy available but you also have to maintain them and make them to begin with. This is for people who don't want to bother doing all that work/new/casual players that can coast on other people's work. I don't think this would be so groundbreaking as to make Apex lose or something since dumpers would be pretty much unaffected. I did make a simulation of it:

Let's say you have 300 whores. Let's say you use them over the month, you're by yourself in a clan and nobody else attacks them

Now each whore generates about 14,400 energy per month. Over the month you could possibly gain about 4.2 million energy. To gain this amount you'd have to attack each whore about 400 times with the 200% buff or 800 without. You'd have to gain between 400 x 300 = 120,000 - 240,000 wins every month just to get 4.2 million energy.

Now expand this to say 1,000+ whores. 14 million plus energy out there per month that you could theoretically get for yourself. You'd have to gain between 360k-720k (that's a massive 25k or so per day unbuffed lol) wins to get that amount. This is all while the top clan could still use their dumpers and other bots. You may have a chance of beating them with 14 million energy but maybe not. You'd likely have a higher chance than the current meta of the top 1 - 2 clans draining all those bots themselves and gaining the 14 million for themselves along with the dumpers.

This is just using current metrics. It could be changed also. There could be a better system overall.

I was only saying to try the war month as a one off month thing, I don't think it should be the case every month so stuff like clans being "useless" isn't the case.

Let's say you have 300 whores.

Let's not. The whole point imo of a potential change is to empower people who don't have an army of bots at their disposal to be able to score. Someone with 300 whores has no issues already. If they can make 300 whores, they can make 50-60 dumpers and succeed with the status quo. I think the focus needs to be on helping people experience scoring and competition before they know all about the game and have 300 bots worth of infrastructure.

I think your idea doesn't actually encourage genuine noobs to succeed, it just gives whore owners (You, rith, Cosby etc) a similar status to the current dumper owners (e.g. huge advantages over anyone else purely because they own lots of infrastructure, not because they click more). Would just isolate power in certain clans and lock anyone else from trying to play the game, which is your whole complaint now, but this time you'll be on the other side.

I support Fishwicks idea of a war month to entice more people to stick around. If we're being real, the game isn't attracting new players. It's just old heads that are left.

Otherwise, the barriers to entry for being champion of competitve clicking are what they are.

I dont support or hate Fishs idea mainly for the reasons Zal posted (something I actually agree with him on) it seems like overkill and for a new player to take advantage of it well there needs to be new players in the first place, it's generally old players returning like LOMU said which know the basics of bot building, besides I don't think it will change much really we could clan 1000s of whores at Apex even if it made no sense to us and I doubt we would see an influx of new players.

In terms of people complaining about what it takes to win or time spent preparing I think it's being overestimated/exaggerated to the extreme.

I love how the argument against doing anything to entice newer players is "there are no new players.
No shit there aren't any new players.
The entire point of making changes is to try and entice newer/returning players back to the game and get them to stay.

Yeah I think certain people want to get bogged down in a "is it hypothetically possible to win the clan race" discussion instead of realizing that possible or not, it kinda sucks to even take part for anyone that hasn't got months or even years of infrastructure behind them.

Ok fair enough so it’s for returning players who can’t be bothered to play the game and make a whore but want to play the game and gain energy, which returning player has not stuck around because they don’t have energy targets?

Sure, there are plenty so I apologize for wall of text.

Cali from Escapism back in the day is one, recently told me that he has no real desire to score when he's fighting for 80 energy on a bot every 4 hours, but would be motivated to score/compete if there was more energy available.

George was scoring hard for a month and did a pretty impressive 1m on Neo2, he tried to do the same in Strung Out in a competitive month and basically gave up on day 4 because he was used to actually having targets to hit and didn't like the 80 energy on each bot thing. He tried to build some dumpers and a 130 but seems like he burnt out before that came to fruition. Shout out to this thread from a year ago where he complained that the scoring system is hostile to new people, and a year later he's still struggling with it after multiple breaks.

I'd throw me in there too, I generally managed to use my buffs up when scoring the few days I've done so in the past few months, but I'd have scored on more bots/more days if it wasn't tedious fighting for tiny amounts of energy.

Also a lil quote from Lusitania forum:

I do t have any energy available my targets are pretty much cleared this morning. Will try again later tonight

Which is literally an existing player saying "I want to play the game, but there are no (energy gaining) links for me to click, so I'm logging out". Maybe people shouldn't have unlimited energy to gain, but logging on and realizing you can't play the game because there's nothing for you to do to help your clan sucks.

Which is why I think a war month could be good, you can't beat anyone with dumpers across the month due to trophys/buffs/repairs etc, but you can do maybe 1m in a month and feel like you're actually playing the game. And then maybe the next month you have a taste for scoring so decide to look at how that crazy player managed to get 3m energy instead of your 1m and you start your way down the dumper pipeline actually being invested in the process, instead of being told to work for months before getting a taste of competition.

Ok so 3 or 4 would rather not play because taking 80 energy on a whore is annoying or less appealing, which I agree is annoying but when you understand the value of taking that 80 energy(on all level ranges) when its competetive then it becomes a lot more appealing, there is plenty of energy about on whores right now but I don't see them playing? What if I said that if whores were given to us or all clanned however you want to word it and we didnt have to build them that I would stop playing or others would, would you still like it to happen then?

To be honest though I am completely bored of talking about it, I don't dislike or like the idea and that's not to be a dick its because I genuinely dont think it's that exciting or new and don't think it would change a whole lot.

Won't reply again made my views on both ideas clear, I just want to play as I enjoy the game :)

What a disingenuous thing to say, at least be honest about it. There is only energy on those bots because you stopped taking it when we stopped trying.

It's definitely more than 3 or 4 people, those are obviously the ones he knows of personally. That said, your comment only just deters from the actual topic and what I feel is the actual issue at hand. Which is new players and retention.

I dont support or hate Fishs idea mainly for the reasons Zal posted (something I actually agree with him on) it seems like overkill and for a new player to take advantage of it well there needs to be new players in the first place, it's generally old players returning like LOMU said which know the basics of bot building, besides I don't think it will change much really we could clan 1000s of whores at Apex even if it made no sense to us and I doubt we would see an influx of new players.

And this comment further illustrates that point. Only old players that already know how to play are the ones returning and new players aren't staying because they don't know how to play, or they are told what they need to do (which results in path of least resistance, IE go find another game).

To your last comment, sure, you could clan 1000 whores and wouldn't see an automatic influx of players, but perhaps if you did then you might see 2-5 new people each month who stick around longer than 1-2 months.

This entire thing seems to be an argument of new players vs clans not being able to compete with Apex, and if you are against one you feel you need to be against the other, which is obviously wrong thinking.

I think Fish's idea would be great, coupled with a penalty from gaining energy from a non-clanned bot. This would require people to do more work to get energy from those sources, thus still providing the incentive to play the meta. Again, this is to entice new players.

What Zal is suggesting as far as diplomacy, gives us the same system we have, with the only change allowing clans to decide where they get their energy from, and only them getting their energy from those sources. This puts the power into individual hands, which I completely disagree with.

There isn't really new players, only old bots2 players that return and play the game for a while and go away again. So, I don't see how improving new players experience can make this game better.

What I like of this game is that you need to build resources. Dumpers are harder to build than whores? Yes but you need less of them, so you'll probably spend the same time building both. You don't want to waste time keeping your dumpers at 60eph? Then you need to spend more time to build more dumpers. I feel the system is balanced as it is.

Yes, login to get 40 energy per target is a pain but you are motivated to do it because there is a competition going on. When competition stops (like now) you can score whatever you want (today I got like 60k energy from ziz so quickly...). You just need to be prepared for competition and I hope who wants to beat Apex with me understand this.

There isn't really new players, only old bots2 players that return and play the game for a while and go away again.

well said Esv

Ah yes, good old circular reason. Love it when that is the basis for why things shouldn't be changed. In that sense, yes Esv, very well said.

Essentially what you are saying is that the game is dead, and there is no point changing anything because the game is dead.
What we are left with is a game whose only competition is an incestuous cycle of fighting between the few remaining players each month.
What happens when there isn't enough players left to form more than one clan?

This is getting off topic, but that is a very real concern. Sure, there aren't really new players, certainly none that stick around for very long, but that is objectively detrimental to the future of this game. For whatever reason, I love this game, which is why I'd very much hate to see that happen. Perhaps it's inevitable, but it would be sad to see in my opinion.

I'm not saying that the game needs any kind of radical change, but attracting, and actually retaining new players is important for the health of any game. For example, it could be something as simple as a tutorial bmail that every new bot automatically receives. It could outline the basics of bot building, clans, dumpers, whores, etc. I know such topics exist on the forum, but a lot of newbies probably have no idea where to even begin. Just a quick, simple idea that might be useful.