miscellaneous

i can see in the next 2 years ender still as not done anything and the game will have a max of 5 people playing

what do ya'll think?

Sounds about right.

My guess will be 2 skeletons and a xylophone artist playing them by the end of 2017.

Which is down from the current 3 skeletons and one xylophone artist.

I'm getting slightly bored...

if we had just a little more to do or atleast see worthy updates once every 6 months rather than what we have had before a word change update then it may keep people wanting to play

zzzzzzzzzzzzz.............. snore..................

I just woke up...

I think whats killing the game (at least in the short term and for the few people that still have interest) is the energy system. Once the energy is gone then there is absolutely nothing to do for a couple of days until it regenerates.

At the very least bring back diplomacy and let clans declare war, then increase the energy generated by bots in clans that have war declared on it. Make it so that if war is declared then energy production increases from 20 to maybe 200 per hour. This would bring back rapes. Make it be that if a clan is competitive or maybe in the top 10 that the bots in the clan do not generate energy or stop energy production for all clans if they do not have war declared against them. That should prevent whore clans from declaring war on competitive clans so that their energy would be increased thus giving them an advantage. (Just go back to the Bots 2 method of declaring wars, where both clans need to declare against each other in order to double the amount of cs taken.) I built a silly low level whore clan with almost 30 bots so far and I only get to fight each of them maybe 10 times per day! Why waste the time doing that.

I like the diplomacy idea above but you could also fix energy by making every abandoned bot in the game generate energy or be in a game created clan SO THAT THEY CAN PRODUCE ENERGY. I emphasized that because it is a total pain to have to search through thousands of abandoned bots just looking for a bot that has 200 energy that you can attack. You spend more time looking for targets than you do actually fighting. It takes 8 or 9 fights to clean out energy from a bot and that has eliminated the need to have attack limits on bots other than leveling bots. Why bother making a clan full of whores when you can only attack them 10 times per day to get 480 energy and that is if somebody else doesn't beat you to it!

This energy system has created a game where 90% of the action is between level 30 to 40 bots against clan owners self created whore clans that everybody attacks and its understandable that everybody attacks them simply because there is nothing else to attack or do...

I understand that Enders belief and goal for Bots 4 was to get competitive clans to fight each other like they did in the old Bots 2 real wars. IT DID NOT WORK! Hasn't over 5 years of bots 4 proven that already?

I'm done with another of my stupid, long, broken record rants that nobody agrees with. Start by fixing the energy system and that might give more people something to do...Will it save the game? Who knows, maybe not, but at least give it a try...

Cheers.

+1 Mr.Pirate^

I'm sorry but this is terrible, the energy system is perfectly fine and all your ideas would do is make the game far too easy for players to have unlimited energy, removing vital competitive elements..strategy, organisation and so on.

I preferred the diplomacy bots2 style scoring but if we went to that now then surely the ratio cap that existed on bots2 would have to be reintroduced as this imo is what made making whore clans fun, each individual whore had different values depending on its wins/ratio ... How would this change be fair on someone like lyrad who has spent years building super-high level dumpers, it wouldn't.

If you are unhappy with how much energy your 30 bots are building then build 30 more, simple.

Spoken like a person that likes to complain about how bad things in this game are and how much they love monopolizing the winners spot each month. Yet they automatically disapprove of any changes that might result in more people and more competition entering the game. I'm not specifically pointing a finger at anybody (or saying this is you) saying that. Just made a generalized statement.

The honest truth, some, if not most people that might come here do not want to or have the time to build hundreds of whores, dumpers and on and on and then manage them. You and (I to a point do enjoy that). I don't mind it now and can do some because I suddenly have a lot of time on my hands.

The topic of this thread is about how long will it take everybody to leave the game thus killing it for good. I made a suggestion that I think could help the game survive. Your whores and dumpers might even be more effective for you simply because you have (I'm assuming) a bunch of friends willing to CLICK for your team!

Fact... This game is based on clicking and who can make enough friends and persuade these friends to click along with them. If you have a million whore clan dumpers that's all fine and dandy but who's going to dump them all? Your many friends thats who so saying that really isn't a valid point to helping Bots survive. You just do not want to see any change, good or bad simply because it would infringe on the way you do things... My opinion only because I care, like you apparently do about the game. We just differ on what to do.

What are your suggestions "to liven up the game so that it doesn't die a second time"?

To answer the original topic question. I'll give Bots 4 another year or when Ender finally gets tired of even bothering anymore. Pretty sad to see this game end up like that don't you think? Cheers...

The energy system could revert back to the old clanscore system and competition wouldn't change, except that cheaters would have an even bigger advantage. That's not to say that cheaters haven't prospered with the energy scoring system in bots4, but you do at least have to have some strategy about your approach other than just, 'oh that target is sore, next!'.

In any case, the bottom line is that this game has been dying for a long time now, and there are no indications that things are going to change any time soon. Whatever suggestions made are pointless without an active admin. To be honest, I was even surprised that tournaments were added early last year. I think there will be a lot of diehards that will continue to play this game regardless of how many other people play it until the game eventually dies and goes away, similar to bots2, but I don't have any expectation that the player base will significantly improve before then.

Whenever an established player disagrees with changes, they're instantly accused of just wanting to keep the system the same so they can continue dominating.

Whatever you do to the game, the smart, committed players will find out how to be the best and do that. Leaving people that can't be bothered to optimize their playtime far behind. That won't (and shouldn't) change, regardless of any changes you propose.

I'd take complaints about the current game state more seriously if it wasnt just "Boohoo I can't win by putting in 30 minutes a day". Energy isn't really a problem (there are new ways clans could compete, sure, but it wasn't a problem two years ago when the game was thriving and super competitive), the amount of available players is.

Tl;Dr: A change to energy would do nothing for the games appeal, just give people something to do for a few months before everything comes back to as it is now.

Theres a multitude of issues with the games design itself that make competition difficult and heavily favored to the establshed. The biggest issues have nothing to do with anything ender is currently developing. While nice its irrelevant to the issues at hand.

I will start by saying that in its current state 1 player could easily win every month for a clan by themselves. You know how? be neps. Outside that for a new player coming into the game its extremely difficult to catch up to established clans at all. Theres almost no incentive to bother given all you really get is a plat trophy for the effort. The time commitment to win the clan tourny for an established clan is minimal. You already have the free 60 EPH for idling top 20 bots. As well as builds set in stone for your scoring bots.

Take Escapism for instance. It has through its long time members figured out all the best possible builds for given situations. Need to score in the 70s? Theres a build for it. Want to level a bunch no problem theres a build for that. Need dumper clans? No problem we have that. Need wins dumped? We have that. Need to level quickly? No problem we have ratio whores all the way to top 10 easily.

Guess what it takes to do that, you guessed it time, knowledge and stars. This is why the new player intake is incredibly small. Very few vets are willing to help new recruits to a big extent with these things. I myself am relevantly new to the game. Yes I tinkered with bots2 a small amount in high school but not to an advanced level. The only reason I'm still playing is thanks in large part to Esv and Thecause letting me ask them 1000 stupid questions until I finally understood what it takes to play this game at a decent level. I by no means consider myself good at this game but I have learned a ton just from 2 people willing to help me.

Enough about me though. The issue at hand is difficult to pin down and fix. New players come to this game see its free to play and try it out. The problem is the game is gated invisibly by stars and has a steep learning curve. Some examples of this is just look at bot builds. Say you want to score, well, guess what most reliable builds that wont get hit by others require stars to be freaked. Want to level into the 300s and go for that leaderboard? Well until you have the stats to use every equipment in the game you need stars and a lot of them. My leveler has 18 on it with all slots full. Between Dex freak gear, strength freak gear, int gear to hit ratio whores and training equipment its almost always tied up.

So how do we fix these issues? Realistically you cant. Because of the way stars are paid for new players will be inherently handicapped forever in a "free to play" game. The first fix you can look at is make stars obtainable freely in some sense. Now the first reaction to this is obviously a veteran player could exploit this to their advantage to obtain more stars to move elsewhere by making new bots. However what I feel ender should do is make a new star type one thats not transferable to another bot at all. Lock it behind harder trophys if you must to balance it. But make it possible to obtain so new bots can order armor from the showroom and learn to freak their bots.

Thats just one issue the next problem is the learning curve. Not every clan have the people on hand to sit there and train a new player. I consider myself lucky to have landed where I did. However conteracting this problem is immensely difficult and time consuming. While ender has mention working on a tutorial I dont think that is enough. A better solution to be quite honest is to have all new bots clanned into a new player clan. Give it infinite treasury so it never dissolves and add guides into its forums that people have made over the years to cover basic information. Things like using the showroom, how to add stats to your bot, what those stats modify etc. On top of that add more advanced guides like freaking and example bot builds for varying levels as well as guides for how things all tie together. After the new player reaches x level remove them from said clan so they can find their way in the game.

Anyways I could go on forever about this stuff but these are the things I think cause the most issues with player retention.

HA!! Execute you're the fucking man, It couldn't have been said better. I remember just a few short seasons ago, Execute was wobblin around the fight list looking for tale, he was just a puny level 50ish when I brought him under my wing to M.V where he watched his borthers revolt againt the tyrants of this game and brought them down! not once but twice! oh goad that souds soo good i'm going to say it twice - Not once, but twice - we took what a piece of the big mans pies! ut then in the middle of the night with the long arm reach of he called, "thecause" our lil wee execute was takin from M.V and nested with the giants on mount escapsim. Now look at him, they turned him into one of them in a matter of months! xo

@The pirate, your rant seems more about you being too lazy to build the bots you need to be successful rather than the energy system.

Your idea of "every bot generates energy" would benefit me highly at the moment because I, like you can't be bothered to level whores. But I don't see how this can improve competition, as others have said the problem is the amount of players and as executed explained rather well in his 3rd or 4th paragraph the steep learning curve(being the main factor imo) and stars don't really help in keeping the attention of new players.

My ideas to improve the game would be advertisement, again this is up to Ender and I think you would need to be a marketing expert to sell this game to potential new players, again this is where the games first impression and steep learning curve factor in.

The game certainly isn't just lvl 30-40 bots scoring because there is nothing else.

If you want to be the best you need to give your best, if someone is draining the energy in your level range then log in a bit earlier the next time you play. If you don't like the sound of that make yourself lvl 100+ and build bots you can whore down to uprape so others can't take the energy... if you can't keep up with someone try taking the energy in their lvl range....Don't watch that tv show you normally watch and play bots instead....Eat well whilst you play to keep you in the right frame of mind.

Happy to help.

I'll be the first to admit that game updates haven't been coming as frequently as I'd like them to be. I'm of course busy with real life stuff, but we all are, so that's not really much of any excuse. It also doesn't really matter at the end of the day - most people just want to play the game; the personal life of the admin is irrelevant.

My ideas to improve the game would be advertisement, again this is up to Ender and I think you would need to be a marketing expert to sell this game to potential new players, again this is where the games first impression and steep learning curve factor in.

Very much agreed. The game needs a stream of new players coming into the game and the game needs to be more "sticky" to retain them better. Perfectly-balanced tournaments, daily quests, and all sorts of other improvements are needed to retain players that have been around for years, but without a stream of new players, we'll never grow beyond a bunch of bots2 old timers. As I've mentioned before, I'm willing to invest back into the game the money that the playerbase has generously spent (in addition to my personal funds) to make this happen.

Anyway, this seems like as good a time as any to reaffirm my commitment to running this game for the long-term. I've been in the bots community for 15 years now and have had a near-daily presence in bots4's 5+ year run. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. :) Updates may come slower than we all like, but I take a very long view on things and am in this for the long haul. If you don't stick around, I understand. But check back sometime later when you remember this game - I promise we'll still be here waiting for you.

^^ +1

Jeez, you guys tell me I talk too much.

Anyway, I thought for fun, I'd take Ender's reply and replace the word "bots4" with lawn/golfing stuff and make it all grass-related so make it sound even more boring yet more logical than it currently is.

I'll be the first to admit that lawn updates haven't been coming as frequently as I'd like them to be. I'm of course busy with real life stuff, but we all are, so that's not really much of any excuse. It also doesn't really matter at the end of the day - most people just want to play the game; the personal life of the maintenance man is irrelevant.

Very much agreed. The game needs a stream of new golfers coming into the golf course and the game needs to be more "sticky" to retain them better. Perfectly-balanced golf tournaments, daily lawnmower quests, and all sorts of other lawn improvements are needed to retain golfers that have been around for years, but without a stream of new golfers, we'll never grow beyond a bunch of golfing old timers. As I've mentioned before, I'm willing to invest back into the lawn the money that the golfers have generously spent (in addition to my personal funds) to make this happen.

Anyway, this seems like as good a time as any to reaffirm my commitment to running this lawn for the long-term. I've been in the golfing community for 15 years now and have had a near-daily presence in the lawn's 5+ year run. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon. :) Lawn updates may come slower than we all like, but I take a very long view on things and am in this for the long haul. If you don't stick around, I understand. But check back sometime later when you remember this lawn - I promise it'll still be here waiting for you.

Much better. After all, this game is just in maintenance mode really.

I still prefer Ender's post. I enjoyed reading it, not boring at all.

If the day ever comes that nobody's playing, I'll play.

[DONE] be king
[TODO] be king of the cinder heap

Hi, I used to play bots2 and I was there when the game was shut down at the time I was a member of Rapture but I bounced around clans and got my fair share of repscore every month to make sure I was always top 10 for the month wherever I was, I played Alan's spin-off (forgot the name) and I played bots4 in the beta, through to release.

I was talking with a friend about bots2 which brought me here and I was just explaining to him about how the energy system was what killed the game for me personally, happily suffering through hacking and rollbacks of the original but the energy system of bots4 was too bad and it just wasn't the same game.

So I saw the weak online list and had to accept the game seemed dead, so I checked the forums and found this thread discussing these exact things.

I feel the energy system should have never been a thing, bots2 was simple elegance - just raping whores and getting score, I was hoping bots4 would have been a clone and then and only then would Ender add any suggestions the community voted in favour of. If it worked like this I think the energy system would have been vetoed and would have never been more than an idea.

I don't know if removing it would be a case of too little too late or the greatest renaissance in our little community to kickstart this game for a new breath of life but it's my opinion as an old school retired player.

Also as a sidenote make a simple app frontend (easy enough) and put it on the app stores and it will bring thousands of new players like nothing else I'd bet, especially if it trends a little.

http://i.imgur.com/S6c4Vyg.png

Maybe its the time of day when you are here that it appears dead. I generally am here at around noon (US Eastern time) and theres anywhere from 14 to 19 or 20 bots online. So with that said, I wouldn't say that the game is totally dead, not through out the entire day... Now at 11pm there are myself and 2 others. And I'm not disputing that it could be better, because it could.

As far as the energy system goes. Love it or hate it, I believe that as long as the game remains online the energy system will never change. Ender likes it and he isn't going to change it and that certainly is his prerogative. The more you play you kind of get used to it I guess.

I don't know this for sure but I "think" that the intent behind "energy" was to try to shift the game towards a real wars kind of game where bots that are in clans will attack all other players clans. I think that the intent was to try to eliminate the need for "whore clans" like was present in Bots 2 and that is still here in Bots 4. That obviously hasn't happened because who wants to sit around fighting bots that you can't beat or that you might win as many as you lose. Thus even more specialized whore clans were developed and have to be used in order to win or at the least do ok.

This is my opinion and you can agree or disagree (and thats fine) but energy has devolved this game in to a low level game especially for the newbie and into a specialized whore clan based system game for the expert players (which kind of locks the new or even intermediate players out because they simply do not know the inner workings of the game like some players do.)

Hopefully the game won't just end like Bots 2 did but who really knows... That truly was a sad story in itself... Cheers.

I , like some others, stopped playing because of energy system and buffs. So now I only log in every few months to see whats new and upcoming and .. well .. nothing is.

Just same 2-3 people online each with few dump bots attacking their main bot. So instead 1->n like we had in bots2 now we have n->1.

No wonder this game is dead/dying.

Just wanted to come say hi to Tito :) Rapture forever fellas!

Also, funny enough:

Status:
offline [last seen 15 days ago]

Ender's status lol. I won't even get to know his stance on the Nintendo Switch before it comes out :(

As for what's wrong with the game, I've said it all before. Energy, dumpers, the top clans having too much of both, and just generally a lackluster update schedule to some harder pressing issues in the game. When a multiplayer game can't keep up to its player base then it tends to die a quick death. The only reason why this game isn't dead is because Ender leads it, people have too much invested in it, and we have a lot of good memories about bots2. But nostalgia has a limit :/ It went past that limit for me months ago.

We still had all out wars if you remember and alliances for that matter, but the whores were the bread and butter of the game this is where people spent most of their time and effort harvesting cs for the month to top the charts, set new cs records etc. and when that was gone (or not as fun and simple to do) so to went the core of the game for me and clearly many others.

The new system isn't inherently bad but it's not what many of the core player base wanted when bots2 was gone. Maybe bring back blue server and have it without the energy system? :D

What's happening

21 bots (from 15 unique IP addresses) are online and have been active within the past 60 minutes:

The normal activity for this time of the day.

Madness!

There is just sooooo few targets these days....

did Ender give up on the game yet?

looks like he has not been seen in so many weeks